Bitsum Community Forum

General Category => Process Lasso => Topic started by: Jeremy Collake on December 23, 2014, 11:03:24 AM

Title: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 23, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
Bitsum's new SmartTrim RAM optimization algorithm is the first-ever halfway intelligent RAM optimization suite in the world. The entire concept of RAM optimization has been so tainted by snake-oil that Jeremy even authors an article debunking them! However, while debunking them, we realized that if we mitigated their negative effects, additional virtual memory control could indeed be useful to some users. Thus, SmartTrim was born. We're still testing it, but will have a final version out in the near future (Process Lasso v7.6). https://bitsum.com/processlasso/
(repost) #smarttrim #lasso
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 23, 2014, 11:33:28 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Collake on December 23, 2014, 11:03:24 AM
Bitsum unveils our first early beta with our new SmartTrim functionality. Classic RAM 'optimizers' work, or rather don't work, by forcing *everything* out of RAM. Many do this by simply allocating as much RAM as they can get, until finally they receive no more. Yes, they are that badly written.

Anyway, after they page out ALL virtual memory, the pages actively in use then get immediately paged back into RAM. You suffer a performance hit and screw up the Windows Virtual Memory Manager's efforts to fully leverage your RAM, the fastest storage you have available on your PC.

Our new technology is surgical, precise. It hits only the pigs. We've still got lots more development to finish, but an early beta always helps to put fire under our butts. Support this and other research by buying a Lasso Pro license. https://bitsum.com/processlasso/
Quick question , if you have enough ram where you never get close to say 75% but you do get page faults (Pf) shown in PL .
Would it benefit at all or even do anything ?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 23, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Depends on usage.

All that 'free' RAM ends up used as a disk cache (also for new apps), that's why Windows is trying to keep some of it available. So, if you needed even *more* free RAM for a disk cache, then maybe it would help.

Make no mistake. This is not ProBalance, which applies to nearly every PC and use case.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 23, 2014, 12:31:17 PM
Yes, in my case I don't notice any change , but I normally use only 30% of ram in use .
I just tried it set only 1hr just as a test .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: DeadHead on December 23, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
Nice!

Now if you could work something out to force more things into Windows file cache on demand, that would be most interesting (like, forcing a game folder into the ram cache, for example).
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: chris635 on December 23, 2014, 01:35:56 PM
I am checking this out on my lap top. How well would this work on a system with pagefile disabled. On my main system, I have 16gb of ram and turn off pagefile.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 23, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: DeadHead on December 23, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
Nice!

Now if you could work something out to force more things into Windows file cache on demand, that would be most interesting (like, forcing a game folder into the ram cache, for example).
Except the SuperFetch has the API, I guess it is hard to force it.
(Off-topic)So far I only know Firefox has trying to speed up the boot by creating a fake prefetch file(which only speed up the boot if the file still on Hard Disk), as it will only bring negative effect for them.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692255

Quote from: chris635 on December 23, 2014, 01:35:56 PM
I am checking this out on my lap top. How well would this work on a system with pagefile disabled. On my main system, I have 16gb of ram and turn off pagefile.
If I am right, the "released" memory from working set will become Modified memory(still on the RAM) until you killed the processes that is released. :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 23, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Before I answer questions, let me say that this algorithm exists almost in framework only right now. I'm still building it out . However, the code will be so solid and safe compared to legacy brain-dead RAM 'optimizers', that I'll be almost a crime not to push out a final version quickly (disabled by default though). That means maybe the next 12 hours. I've got the translations ready, except for those last minute log entries.

Then I'll add more configuration options.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Version 7.5.5 beta, building now - so uploading in about an hour - will substantially improve this new SmartTrim algorithm's implementation. It also adds aforementioned log events. I think it will turn out quite well.

Finally, a RAM optimization algorithm that doesn't pile-drive the whole virtual memory subsystem.

Please let me know of any bugs or feedback.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 12:41:05 AM
Build out. Some tuning does remain.

My Latest Description of this New Feature (Tech Specs to Follow):

Bitsum's new SmartTrim RAM optimization algorithm is the first-ever halfway intelligent RAM optimization suite in the world. The entire concept of RAM optimization has been so tainted by snake-oil that Jeremy even authors an article debunking them! However, while debunking them, we realized that if we mitigated their negative effects, additional virtual memory control could indeed be useful to some users. Thus, SmartTrim was born. We're still testing it, but will have a final version out in the near future (Process Lasso v7.6). https://bitsum.com/processlasso/
(repost) #smarttrim #lasso
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: XhenEd on December 24, 2014, 04:52:57 AM
Yay! I think this will improve my Intel Atom, 2Gig netbook. (I hope so...)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 24, 2014, 09:14:26 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 12:17:03 AM
Version 7.5.5 beta, building now - so uploading in about an hour - will substantially improve this new SmartTrim algorithm's implementation. It also adds aforementioned log events. I think it will turn out quite well.

Finally, a RAM optimization algorithm that doesn't pile-drive the whole virtual memory subsystem.

Please let me know of any bugs or feedback.
any trick to getting log event to show ?
I have it set to 1hr setting but not seeing log event , what log events do i need enabled ?
Maybe because there nothing to trim, i am only at 30% usage of 8gig's
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: DeadHead on December 24, 2014, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: edkiefer on December 24, 2014, 09:14:26 AM
any trick to getting log event to show ?
I have it set to 1hr setting but not seeing log event , what log events do i need enabled ?
Maybe because there nothing to trim, i am only at 30% usage of 8gig's

Seems to work just fine for me, but I've only tested it manually. For example, Firefox working set goes from 524 MB down to 4 MB. After a while though, FF is consuming about the same amount of memory again, so not really sure what to make of it.

This Trim-function reminds me of this other software, which I won't mention here:

"[program x] keeps memory use in check on the system without the memory being pushed to the page file. This in turn keeps the system running smoother."
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 24, 2014, 10:02:36 AM
ok, yes, if I trim it manually it works but the 1hr setting doesn't seem to be working .

I manually trimmed it and did lower FF like you mention and did get log events .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: chris635 on December 24, 2014, 10:30:45 AM
ditto for the 30 minute setting.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: chris635 on December 24, 2014, 10:32:00 AM
Manual in deed does work with log's.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 11:02:45 AM
Yes, there was a malfunction in the scheduling (particularly notifying the SmartTrim thread that the config changed). I was testing this mechanism as I fell asleep, knowing I could verify/fix it when I woke.

There are also a couple unfinished parts of the algorithm, so don't judge it too quick.

I will give a full technical description that will clarify what it does and doesn't do, and for what situations it will be useful. All after I'm done with current coding.

See next beta build (hours). Thanks.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: chris635 on December 24, 2014, 12:11:59 PM
okay
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 12:16:50 PM
Ok ;).

Remember guys, you are dealing with daily betas, and I'm moving at warp speed. It's code hot off the presses and not 100% done.

With daily beta builds, you have to expect small quirks. That's why they are betas.

I did announce all this too early, but I wanted people to get excited.

The core code is quite beautiful. It's well written, and once we get it through full QA, it'll absolutely set a new standard in this area of optimization. And I don't talk BS, I will describe the algorithm in detail. I *hope* people copy me. That will result in less shitty RAM optimizers in the world.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: chris635 on December 24, 2014, 12:30:44 PM
Do what you need to do  ;). Looking forward to it, and I will help give feedback when I can.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 24, 2014, 01:24:57 PM
Quote from: XhenEd on December 24, 2014, 04:52:57 AM
Yay! I think this will improve my Intel Atom, 2Gig netbook. (I hope so...)
It depend, if you are moving the code that only run once then don't released from RAM, and you are not facing CPU performance issues, then this should help.(Which is what I want too, getting the useless data into Page File, and put more useful data into RAM) :)

Of cause if you are using SSD, then the effect that wrong code/memory is getting paged into the Hard Disk will be reduced, as many user can't feel the difference between reading the data from SSD and RAM, except some case. ;)

Quote from: DeadHead on December 24, 2014, 09:44:21 AM
Seems to work just fine for me, but I've only tested it manually. For example, Firefox working set goes from 524 MB down to 4 MB. After a while though, FF is consuming about the same amount of memory again, so not really sure what to make of it.
Ya, that is normal, as Firefox will get the data back from modified memory when the code is needed to run the website, then the useless or memory leak data will be put into the modified memory or Page File. ;)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Hotrod on December 24, 2014, 01:43:45 PM
I have been waiting a very long time to see someone tackle this one in an intelligent manner. I knew it wouldn't be long before Jeremy tried it, as he was so dissatisfied with the existing attempts. He really does have a remarkable brain. :) Will this eventually replace PL's memory trim function, or will it run as a separate plugin?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 24, 2014, 02:00:32 PM
Thank you ;). This had been on my mind for a long time for sure.

SmartTrim will entirely replace Lasso's trim function, built into the product w/o any plug-ins.

There are other plans for it as well, but this isn't the place to describe them.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 25, 2014, 07:38:20 PM
Christmas disrupted me a bit, but v7.5.7 beta, building now (<1hr upload), should work well with SmartTrim scheduling and Steam based triggers. I'm still working on them, but in my book, you can't get a beta into the users' hands soon enough.

There is still lots of work to do to go final (v7.6), but we're committed to doing so this week.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 25, 2014, 10:11:20 PM
SmartTrim scheduling is working now properly and logs which processes were trimmed .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 25, 2014, 10:13:36 PM
Great to hear, thanks for the confirmation ;).
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 26, 2014, 09:58:08 AM
Version 7.6 is out. Version 8.0 will be the official SmartTrim version. But, you can use SmartTrim in v7.6.

SmartTrim framework is about 90%. There is a GUI->governor as service communication issue discovered right before release that I'll have to solve. User reported (thanks). Basically, no 'trim now' for users who installed the governor as a service. Sounds simple to fix, but there are larger implications and I need to do it right. Few users of this SmartTrim function will be running the governor as a service anyway. For those that dp: Don't, unless you have a reason. Running it as a service sounds good, but has too many disadvantages over advantages. I may only support it for the Server Edition some day (maybe, unlikely since I know people love this ability).

The algorithm itself is about 30% done, but fully functional and already 100% better than anything else on the market. First thing to do was simply be selective. Be discriminatory, don't just whack everything in memory as classic RAM 'optimizers' do! SnartTrim ignore processes that do NOT need trimming, or should not be trimmed. Why trim a process that doesn't need it, forcing hard page faults (immediately loading the memory back into RAM)? This cuts down on performance degradation from post-trim hard page faults substantially.

These simple actions already tke a RAM optimization algorithm from entrely stupid to potentially useful, under some circumstances. Remember, your 'free' RAM is used as a dsk cache.

I promised tech details, not some magic black box that works miracles. This should entice ya for now. More to come, much more.

Now, after sacrificing my mind and body for Bitsum, I believe we're in good shape, and will be in continued contact with you after I get some rest :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: bertie97 on December 26, 2014, 11:54:39 AM
All sounds very good. 
I will see how I get on with a 30 min interval & report back.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 26, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
it working, I have it set to 1hr and on FF it trimmed 2 times, then 3 said nothing to trim .
FF is only thing it trims so far , I haven't tried a lot of app yet though .

Yesterday I was playing BF4 and got a disconnect, which I first thought was maybe trim issue but it didn't trim yet and trimmed while I played .Didn't notice any issue with that .
Will keep an eye on things, so far don't notice any downside yet .

PS my FF went from 1.5gig to 475mb .yes, I got a lot of tabs open .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 26, 2014, 04:04:27 PM
QuotePS my FF went from 1.5gig to 475mb .yes, I got a lot of tabs open .
Same, but only when I like to open a lot of Image or News. :D
Too bad Firefox don't speed up the process for supporting 64-bit after they know about Chrome has released 64-bit stable, which might be useful for heavy users.

And, I guess we can start counting the TRIM count at the Insights now? ;)

----Off-Topic
Also, when you hover the mouse over the Tray icon, why it is showing as "Lasso 7.6", but not "Process Lasso 7.6", for much better information box, or? :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 26, 2014, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: BenYeeHua on December 26, 2014, 04:04:27 PM
Same, but only when I like to open a lot of Image or News. :D
Too bad Firefox don't speed up the process for supporting 64-bit after they know about Chrome has released 64-bit stable, which might be useful for heavy users.

And, I guess we can start counting the TRIM count at the Insights now? ;)

----Off-Topic
Also, when you hover the mouse over the Tray icon, why it is showing as "Lasso 7.6", but not "Process Lasso 7.6", for much better information box, or? :)
I actually run Palemoon, which is optimized version, it does have 64bit, but i use the 32bit version .
Not sure why it been so high, i think normally i am around 1gig, could of been I watched a lot you-tube vids or something .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 27, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
Quote from: edkiefer on December 26, 2014, 05:12:19 PM
I actually run Palemoon, which is optimized version, it does have 64bit, but i use the 32bit version .
Not sure why it been so high, i think normally i am around 1gig, could of been I watched a lot you-tube vids or something .
Check the about:memory, it should tell you more about it.
YouTube should only affect Flash Player memory usage, as they only enable HTML5 for Nightly build of Firefox only. :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 27, 2014, 08:42:16 AM
Yes, I didn't try about:memory , that would show detailed usage .

Ok, feedback on smarttrim . yesterday on time every hr it trimmed what it could, many times nothing to trim but I played some gaming yesterday at time to trim and noticed no log and I don't think it tried though its har to tell .It did trim 20min after, so that timing was not in sync with others .
Day before it trimmed while gaming as i was trying to see if it affects it, need more testing on this but that was only odd thing so far .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 27, 2014, 09:24:01 AM
As the game quickly reclaim back the memory that it is using(16.67ms if the game is ticking as 60HZ), so it should not affect too much for the game, while also paged the memory leak into Page File. :)
(Except they are using their own cache solution and loaded into the game process, but not SuperFetch which cached as Standby and provide better memory priority.)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 27, 2014, 10:52:46 AM
Quote from: BenYeeHua on December 27, 2014, 09:24:01 AM
As the game quickly reclaim back the memory that it is using(16.67ms if the game is ticking as 60HZ), so it should not affect too much for the game, while also paged the memory leak into Page File. :)
(Except they are using their own cache solution and loaded into the game process, but not SuperFetch which cached as Standby and provide better memory priority.)
Yeh, I was just testing it , it did run today while gaming but didn't trim anything off game .
One time it did trim BF4 but that was only one time most its just browser if there anything to trim there .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 27, 2014, 03:28:52 PM
Yup, I guess browser is more heavy than Game. ;D
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 27, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
It is designed to ignore the process currently in the foreground.

There are other exceptions and criteria as well.

Future builds (v8) will allow specific exclusions and more control. This is just the beginning.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 27, 2014, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Collake on December 27, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
It is designed to ignore the process currently in the foreground.

There are other exceptions and criteria as well.

Future builds (v8) will allow specific exclusions and more control. This is just the beginning.
I think it is best to ignore foreground process ,especially if its a game as maps get loaded into memory and next time it goes real fast as long as still in memory or maybe that is superfech at work .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 27, 2014, 04:43:34 PM
Definitely it is best to ignore the foreground process. My algorithm (SmartTrim) isn't based upon the delusion that some marketers have perpetrated: More free RAM == better  (the delusion, to be clear). Another common delusion is that RAM must be defragmented. Yet another is that processes 'leave RAM behind'.

SmartTrim is based around the idea that *sometimes* users prefer *some* memory hogging applications to go ahead and give up their working set.

I give these details out readily, knowing competitors will come and try to copy me. But the thing is -- if they couldn't come up with it themselves, what are the chances they would even duplicate it right? Further, most of these companies don't even care if their algorithms work. Seriously. They just want a button to press, a claim they can make, and a price they can set.

I hope people support Bitsum because we are a no-BS operation run by engineers.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 28, 2014, 04:38:29 AM
Then, just provide a setting like ProBalance, "Ignore all foreground process".
Just my opinion. :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 28, 2014, 10:03:07 AM
Yes, I'll add such a toggle. I hate to give competitors all the secret ingredients, but like I said - they couldn't do it right even if they knew exactly what to do.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: bertie97 on December 28, 2014, 04:19:35 PM
Smart trim seems to be behaving fine for me.  Surprising how greedy browsers can get.
I think that the system has increased smoothness, may be my imagination of course, but it does seem to feel different.

Hope the new innovation generates some more interest & sales as PL really is a life-saver when it comes to having a nice smooth working environment.  Also hope the ideas aren't ripped-off as PL is still the original & best, & deserves full recognition  :)

Wow, version 8 is on the horizon, how long has it been since version 1.0?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on December 28, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
Quote from: bertie97 on December 28, 2014, 04:19:35 PM


Wow, version 8 is on the horizon, how long has it been since version 1.0?
Version 1.20   released 12-20-2003

I  think I started using version 4.0
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 28, 2014, 07:59:37 PM
Thanks for the good reports. I intend to work on the backing web pages and ancillary features ASAP.

I'm not going to set a specific date for v8.0, but it won't be long. Certainly there has been no predictable major version release history to guesstimate by.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 29, 2014, 05:02:42 AM
And the ETA is always "when it is ready". :D
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: bertie97 on December 29, 2014, 05:48:03 AM
Quote from: edkiefer on December 28, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
Version 1.20   released 12-20-2003

I  think I started using version 4.0

2003 - seems almost like yesterday.  Somehow also feels like PL was around before that tho.
Not that I used PL consistently,  :-[  I lost it, forgot what it was called, failed to remember how to search for it etc etc then eventually came back to it.  Thankfully.
I don't think I could run a multi core PC without it these days.  The lumpy ride without PL just drives me crazy.
That applies on both my AMD & my Intel stuff.
Good to know of (& experience) the constant improvements after more than a decade.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: XhenEd on December 29, 2014, 08:08:21 AM
I just want to refer you to the thread since this thread about PL's SmartTrim is linked: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other software-experimentation.371695/ (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other%20software-experimentation.371695/)

The thread is about a memory cleaning program, but it went into a broad discussion of the effectiveness of all memory cleaning programs.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on December 29, 2014, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: bertie97 on December 29, 2014, 05:48:03 AM
I don't think I could run a multi core PC without it these days.  The lumpy ride without PL just drives me crazy.
That applies on both my AMD & my Intel stuff.
Good to know of (& experience) the constant improvements after more than a decade.
Who know, maybe Microsoft will become crazy one day, and providing a very good kernel for responsiveness while ignoring all the compatibility issues. ;)

Quote from: XhenEd on December 29, 2014, 08:08:21 AM
I just want to refer you to the thread since this thread about PL's SmartTrim is linked: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other software-experimentation.371695/ (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other%20software-experimentation.371695/)

The thread is about a memory cleaning program, but it went into a broad discussion of the effectiveness of all memory cleaning programs.
Yup, not a bad thread.

Anyways, I think the issues are
1.Clean/Trim too much processes, which causing difference processes writing/reading the Hard Disk at the same time, nothing for SSD, but worst for HDD
2.Clean/Trim the biggest process, might miss some processes that are memory leaking "slowly"(a issues for small RAM+HDD user), normal for SSD, might worst for HDD.
The effect depend on how the process read the data from virtual memory/HDD, like QQ chat software that read the chat one by one when you are scrolling, or Firefox/Chrome which read/GC the data together
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on December 29, 2014, 03:25:34 PM
Quote from: XhenEd on December 29, 2014, 08:08:21 AM
I just want to refer you to the thread since this thread about PL's SmartTrim is linked: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other software-experimentation.371695/ (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/other%20software-experimentation.371695/)

The thread is about a memory cleaning program, but it went into a broad discussion of the effectiveness of all memory cleaning programs.

Thanks! I'll likely comment there myself when I get some time. First I need to finish the new SmartTrim pages I wanted to have done yesterday.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Sparky Zelectrict on January 15, 2015, 12:15:05 PM
How would ignore foreground processes would work on a system that is set to favor background services. That's a setting I always make on my own computer. (control panel->system->advanced system setting->advanced tab->performance settings->advanced tab->best performance of background services, [I think MS may have overused the word "advanced" to compensate for some other shortcoming])

My rationale is that since I use VMware Workstation constantly that it would keep my VMs running more smoothly at little expense to my actual foreground task (especially since my foreground task is often just surfing the web ::)).

My question is this: Can SmartTrim still tell what my foreground process is even if I've optimized the OS to favor background tasks? Will my setting have any impact on SmartTrim at all?

-----

Looking forward to $igning up for v8. Until Windows can manage processes and memory with the efficiency of *nix I'll be using Process Lasso.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 15, 2015, 07:59:40 PM
Yes, it can still tell the foreground process. At least as long as you aren't running the governor as a service, then it's blind.

That CPU setting (background vs foreground precedence) is entirely unrelated.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on January 16, 2015, 09:30:29 PM
I think SmartTrim causes this side effect/bug: I've disabled logging  ("Logging enabled" unchecked) but when something SmartTrim-related occurs, the log is enabled and written again (only SmartTrim entries I believe) - PL Pro 7.8.0.1
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 17, 2015, 04:21:36 AM
Quote from: Autumner on January 16, 2015, 09:30:29 PM
I think SmartTrim causes this side effect/bug: I've disabled logging  ("Logging enabled" unchecked) but when something SmartTrim-related occurs, the log is enabled and written again (only SmartTrim entries I believe) - PL Pro 7.8.0.1

Thanks, that *is* a bug - I'll be sure it gets fixed.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on January 17, 2015, 03:45:52 PM
Thank you Jeremy. I now see that it logs everything, including SmartTrim operations even with SmartTrim disabled.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 17, 2015, 05:10:36 PM
Thanks, it's a medium priority item for me. I'll report back <24 hours.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Keefa on January 25, 2015, 08:50:40 AM
Looks like SmartTrim is enabled regardless of any of the options. I tried not touching any of the settings after a fresh install, leaving the SmartTrim disabled as it is by default. While all the settings show SmartTrim as disabled, according to the log, SmartTrim is still trimming. I'd quite like it not to do that unless I've enabled the feature. That's on the latest public beta available.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 25, 2015, 08:54:41 AM
Yes, I am fixing this today. Sorry for the trouble and brief delay in fix.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 25, 2015, 09:03:20 AM
Note that there are two distinct beta version issues here.

1. SmartTrim always logs, even if logging disabled.
2. SmartTrim is ON, when it should be OFF.

Of course, these are the usual kinds of issues you might encounter with our BETA versions (for any readers). The final version has no such bugs.

Both will be fixed by today's beta. I had some curveballs come at me, so beta dev got delayed a few days. I'm catching up quick though. The last beta was mostly a reissue with the 'automatic update check not enabled by default' fix (meaning first-time users weren't getting update notifications), which was a critical item. I had to backport that fix to the last final, and to do that I had to be very cautious and deliberate, check every changed line of code, test, etc... It was a real pain. This was an easy to miss bug in legacy code though, a team of 20 could have missed it with ease. This is part of why we're refactoring Lasso piece by piece. There may be bumps in the road, but the final product will be superior. We believe in the PC, and are invested in improving software offerings for it.

p.s. If you're curious, I discovered the update checks not enabled by default issue, it was not a user report. I take some solace in that, too. We found it.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on January 25, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
Quote from: Jeremy Collake on January 25, 2015, 09:03:20 AM
Note that there are two distinct beta version issues here.

1. SmartTrim always logs, even if logging disabled.
2. SmartTrim is ON, when it should be OFF.

Both fixed as of v7.9.1.3 beta, which I'm moving towards upload in the next hour or so.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: PL on February 05, 2015, 04:13:42 AM
Hello all, first post from a new paid PL user here (although I was aware of the program previously)

Is it counter-productive to have SmartTrim with the "Let ST decide when to act.." option enabled for a casual user ? (no heavy gfx/audio processing or anything like that, usually)

I have 8gb ram available and never seem to run into lack of memory problems - I have set aside 6gb of that for a dynamically sized Ram Disk, still no issues.

Using SSD drives with no prefetching/Superfetch.

So, my question is whether ST would be applicable under these circumstances - I am quite happy to leave it enabled if it can only help rather than hinder, even if it rarely kicks in.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on February 05, 2015, 09:05:17 AM
I would leave it disabled unless you have RAM constraints, which you indicate you don't. That's why it defaults to disabled.

Unlike other companies, I'm not going to lie and tell you that it should be used under all circumstances.

That SAID, the SmartTrim algorithm is intelligent enough to not do any harm if it *is* enabled. Thus, the 'Smart' part :). So, you'll be fine on or off.

Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: PL on February 05, 2015, 09:43:28 AM
Thankyou.

In that case, if it`s not detrimental or has any effect on uneccessary swap file action, I`ll leave it on   :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on February 05, 2015, 09:48:13 AM
Sounds good. The one caveat I'll add is that this is just iteration #1 in v7.8.

The full rendition of SmartTrim will be in 8.0. There, you'll have more control over its parameters, so can make sure it never interferes (talking about edge/rare cases), and will better know when and why it operates (trims).
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: PL on February 05, 2015, 12:25:25 PM
Excellent, I like the way I can just "ignore" it and it does what it needs to do without any worries and knowing everything`s kept "on the level" in the background.

I`ll be looking into all the options in depth when I have more time but it doesn`t seem to be necessary to do so, it`s pretty much set & forget if you want it that way.

5 days in now with v7.9.3.1 x64 and no apparent issues at all.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on February 05, 2015, 12:27:15 PM
Cool, I'm headed back into product dev (business dev, web services, marketing, and other hats had me distracted)...

Look for beta updates next few days, fast and furious.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on March 11, 2015, 03:01:42 PM
The smarttrim logging even though logging disabling should have been fixed a while back in a beta, fwiw. Forgot to mention it here.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on May 13, 2015, 04:38:34 AM
I'm having the same problem with logging, on my x86 PC. Logging is disabled in the options but it's filled with the same entry: SmartTrim No Action - No action was taken because the RAM load is less than the configured threshold. (PL Pro 8.0.6.4 32 bit)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on May 13, 2015, 10:23:52 AM
This is something I am fixing today. Should be a few hours at most until next beta build. In the interim, you can disable that specific log event type.

And it is different from the original report, fwiw. Not the same bug.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on May 13, 2015, 12:28:50 PM
I've now fixed this second case of a SmartTrim log event seeping through in v8.0.7.3 beta, but it hasn't yet been validated. This build will be available in a few minutes.

Although the fix is most likely efficacious, the underlying cause is a failure to communicate a configuration change to the SmartTrim thread, something we are still investigating.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on June 14, 2015, 06:29:06 PM
Thanks for the fixes. It seems it occurs much less now but still seeing some entries (PL Pro 8.1.0.0 x64).
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on June 14, 2015, 07:30:13 PM
Hmm, that's odd. I'll investigate further. There is something wrong in the inter-thread synchronization with the configuration, apparently. I had used the registry as a secondary backup of the 'no logging' option, making me ask next: Do you have any registry cleaners in use?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on June 14, 2015, 07:52:22 PM
I am not seeing this , but maybe its a specific smarttrim setting , maybe post your smarttrim settings/options .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on June 14, 2015, 08:32:46 PM
Quote from: edkiefer on June 14, 2015, 07:52:22 PM
I am not seeing this , but maybe its a specific smarttrim setting , maybe post your smarttrim settings/options .
looks like I am getting this even with log off .
Going to see if pin down cause .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on June 14, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Are either of you running the governor as a service?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on June 15, 2015, 05:02:12 AM
I've left SmartTrim settings at their default, not using the governor as a service and every now and then I use registry cleaners. Usually CCleaner and AVG PC TuneUp.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on June 15, 2015, 05:25:32 AM
CCleaner has been known to delete Process Lasso's HKCU registry key, though it was supposed to have been fixed. That would cause this intermittent failure. Since I used an HKCU registry value as a double-check of the INI setting, the registry could be written to after that value was deleted, but before it was re-created the next time the INI configuration file is reloaded. That is the only plausible theory I have.

However, as you can see, the 'fix' I made was to work-around an apparent deeper issue with the configuration synchronization between the SmartTrim thread's logger module instance and the rest of the system, so that's what I need to diagnose more carefully.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: culinary on July 06, 2015, 04:11:29 AM
hi, i have a question regarding smarttrim related settings and its triggers:

after manually turning on smart trim, there's two settings by default--trim every 15 minutes in "periodic times trim" and 65% for "never act until RAM load exceeds". I'm curious, does this default setting mean trim will only kick in when *both* criteria match? (i.e. using 65% or more RAM load *AND* only when triggered every 15 minutes) Or, will it trim every 15 minutes, *and also* every time when 65% or more memory is used? Couldn't find helpful documentation via help, so this is my first time accessing forum  ;D

anyhow, amazing addition especially for users like me whose company mandatory security software bloat which does nothing (so cpu use is almost none) but sucks up immense memory (like 1gb one time I checked) sits on work pc but cannot choose to kill it either. such software needs to slim down but using conventional ram optimizer (other software...) will slow down my running processes every time it runs so I kind of gave up on running more programs...maybe until now.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: culinary on July 06, 2015, 04:18:49 AM
just adding to my post above:
for myself, I am not a big fan of trimming memory unless it bars me from launching a program so i'd like to configure it to run *only* when my memory is running out(so 65% or more as set by default), whether it be 15 minutes or every time it needs to is less of a concern. i hope i could learn how to tweak it to do such.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on July 06, 2015, 06:11:02 AM
Quote from: culinary on July 06, 2015, 04:11:29 AM
hi, i have a question regarding smarttrim related settings and its triggers:

after manually turning on smart trim, there's two settings by default--trim every 15 minutes in "periodic times trim" and 65% for "never act until RAM load exceeds". I'm curious, does this default setting mean trim will only kick in when *both* criteria match? (i.e. using 65% or more RAM load *AND* only when triggered every 15 minutes) Or, will it trim every 15 minutes, *and also* every time when 65% or more memory is used? Couldn't find helpful documentation via help, so this is my first time accessing forum  ;D

anyhow, amazing addition especially for users like me whose company mandatory security software bloat which does nothing (so cpu use is almost none) but sucks up immense memory (like 1gb one time I checked) sits on work pc but cannot choose to kill it either. such software needs to slim down but using conventional ram optimizer (other software...) will slow down my running processes every time it runs so I kind of gave up on running more programs...maybe until now.
Hi,  how it works is this .
the trim interval is just that, it will check and trim ever 15min, or whatever you set , if your settings (see advanced config settings) don't trigger any trims then, nothing happens .

The two threshold triggers are if your ram usage goes above the 65% mark and you have processes using more than "min process working set " ,then a trim will happen.
If neither of above are met , then no trim happens at each trim interval .
These adjustments are under advanced configurations smartTrim settings .

Hope this helps understand better , also make sure all smartTrim logs are enabled to better see how it works, at least in beginning, 

What you can do, this depends on how much memory in your system and the app you run .
You can set top slider to like 65-85% and then set second slider (min processes working set ...) to a value greater than small app use, this adjustment fine tunes when trim will happen on a process/app at the the usage mark threshold you chose .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on July 06, 2015, 11:50:06 AM
As Ed said, yes *all* criteria must match, the interval is just how often it will even check for the system for matching criteria to initiate a trim.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: culinary on July 06, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Thank you. so just like I wanted it to be!
In fact, I'm yet to enable and take a look at the log but over last day or so working with my pc it indeed seem to smooth out ram usage as my system ram load gradually arose then smoothed out over time without system slowdown like it used to. all that without process switch hickups often brought by other software and such :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Jeremy Collake on August 07, 2015, 10:56:56 PM
Great to hear!

Yes, an important part of SmartTrim was making sure it did no harm to performance, unlike other RAM optimizers that simply bludgeon all processes.

The same is true of ProBalance, we always keep 'do no harm' in mind, sort of like doctors ;).
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on August 08, 2015, 02:57:24 PM
I still like to enable SmartTrim only if I has a SSD, so if the data is stored in the Page File, reading the Page File will not slowing down the responsiveness of computer too much. ;)

And ya, Chrome Canary has supported paging the background tabs into Page File(in chrome:flags), it may working better than using software to trim it? :)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on August 09, 2015, 10:15:49 AM
I have it enabled even though in normal use it never gets triggered with settings I use (defaults are fine for me) .
I have tested it with more aggressive settings (low % values and memory per process ) and have not noticed any degradation from it like I have seen in past with many memory turbo types apps (big like 10+yrs ago ).
Even tested BF4 and let it trim BF4 while playing , I figured this would show some stuttering, long texture loading etc , but didn't notice anything .

So overall I say it pretty safe from performance point ,but again, memory is there to be used so set the values smartly according to system memory amount and applications used , along with how you multitask .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: BenYeeHua on August 09, 2015, 11:53:27 AM
Yes, it also depend on the software how to reading the memory.

For the QQ(chat software), it is reading the msg one by one, so it will causing stutter while doing that.
Lucky they disabled the Trim feature in their newer version of QQ, so it is no longer happen, until I am extract some file or updating game. :)

Of cause if there are some software like this running, then just exclude it from SmartTrim. ;)
---
And ya, I think Windows also improved Page File and also TRIM(for user that running software that hitting the RAM limit), that's why many user using newer windows, and notice less lag are happening now. ;)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Phil on September 26, 2015, 03:06:59 PM
This question may have been stated and answered but I'll like to know which process/processes are trimmed? I checked the log and it only states that the Processgovernor.exe trimmed # amount of processes but not which process/processes. Is there a option to view it?
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on September 26, 2015, 04:16:56 PM
right below that listing in log there should be action logs of "trim" with name of process that got trimmed .

Maybe enable all log options in view but it should show .
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Phil on October 01, 2015, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: edkiefer on September 26, 2015, 04:16:56 PM
right below that listing in log there should be action logs of "trim" with name of process that got trimmed .

Maybe enable all log options in view but it should show .

Finally figured it out... just type "trim" on log search box to find out which process has been trimmed.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on July 24, 2018, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: Autumner on May 13, 2015, 04:38:34 AM
I'm having the same problem with logging, on my x86 PC. Logging is disabled in the options but it's filled with the same entry: SmartTrim No Action - No action was taken because the RAM load is less than the configured threshold. (PL Pro 8.0.6.4 32 bit)

This exact problem has recently re-appeared, even though the log entries are few. (PL Pro 9.0.0.455 x64)
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: edkiefer on July 25, 2018, 06:41:33 AM
Quote from: Autumner on July 24, 2018, 07:15:31 PM
This exact problem has recently re-appeared, even though the log entries are few. (PL Pro 9.0.0.455 x64)
So you have logging in general disabled but are still seeing the "no action was taken because the ram load is less than the configured threshold".
That is strange, I am on 9.0.0.455 x64 an all is fine.

Try toggling the logging enable option and also make sure you don't have log option "no action was taken because the ram load is less than configured threshold".
I really don't see this as being useful once you have it set up on your system.
Title: Re: SmartTrim - The first smart virtual memory trimmer
Post by: Autumner on July 30, 2018, 10:17:58 AM
Yes, unchecking "Log SmartTrim no action taken events" seems to solve this (haven't seen any log entries yet), although the logic is still wrong because logging is supposed to be globally disabled for all sub-categories. Anyway, not really a problem.