CNET Download.com sells out by adding a 'Download.com Installer' (bundler)

[Jeremy Collake]

As of last month, CNET Download.com added their own 'Download Installer' which has the BING Toolbar bundled with it. I noticed this today. I was using them for my primary mirror, as they never pulled this before. I apologize to all users, I had no idea they made this change. I no longer direct users to their site for a download. Needless to say, all this 'Download Installer' does is wrap around whatever you are getting to give you the chance to get their wonderful toolbar, or free scanner, or whatever deal of the month they are bundling. This USED to be against their policies for listings at download.com.

Microsoft must really be throwing some money around to get this BING toolbar out there. I'm one of the few not on this gravy train, apparently.

Maybe I should just give up. Many people want everything for free anyway. Perhaps if I bundled a toolbar I could make it more free. Is that what users want? Take advantage of those who don't notice the checkbox to not install whatever the bundled app of the week is so that the software can be even more free than it already is?

WELL, I AM NOT DOING IT! I will not willingly contribute more to this pervasive problem and insult to the intelligence of users.

https://upload.cnet.com/8301-21_5-20084419-9978525.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=DownloadProductReview

[Jude]

Good for you Jeremy stick to your guns those tool bars can go back where they came from!! 

Jude

[Jeremy Collake]

It's just getting a little damn absurd ... I mean, it was already obnoxious. However, now, people get berated TWICE just to install an application. First, by whatever 'download manager' or 'install manager' a download site uses, and then again by applications. The only thing is that I fear these companies who have sold out have done so for a good reason. In many ways, this makes me feel like the naive fool, always missing out because I don't have what it takes to make it in a capitalist world.

I don't know ... I just don't know. I mean, I'm poor. I'll be the first to say. Do we really live in a world where you have to sell your soul to be anything but poor?

Everything has a bundle anymore ... SUN Java has for a long time. Everything. I can hardly think of anything that doesn't. Sigh ... it is just depressing.

This hurts me in more ways. By not linking to them as my mirror, my download count there goes down, and fewer users are exposed to my software. Of course, it isn't like they are top notch journalists over there. It is mostly pay for the review you want.

[Hotrod]

I must agree. You have no idea how many people have come to me with computers that are totally hung up with toolbars to the point they won't access the net or sometimes can't even respond but once every 30 minutes for only a few seconds. They of course have no idea what is causing the problem, but after a few hours removing mostly toolbars the system bounces back like new. And some of these toolbars do things in the background they tell you nothing about. I ALWAYS watch my product installs watching for these resource hogs, but alas some of them slip by. Some of the installers hang just before the toolbar offer with the box prechecked for you. You click 2 or 3 times on the next button and then they whip past that detail so fast you never see it. For those who are unaware this can be trouble. Try to take your time and view every screen when installing. Also remember that most browsers offer you a way to add all these search pages as part of their built in search function, so a toolbar is completely unecessary. Just say NO to TOOLBARS !!! 

[Jeremy Collake]

I still can't help but feel like that stupid sap ... I mean, I get complaints constantly because Process Lasso is 100% free in every way. If I resorted to this, I could make it so. Nobody seems to mind, apparently. 2011 is the year of the bundle. It used to be that only rogue apps bundled crap. Ever since SUN started doing it, and Microsoft started pushing the BING toolbar, everything changed.

Oh well... It is just upsetting. This hurts the entire industry, and especially the few of us left playing by the rules.

[Hotrod]

This was my only windows update today...and tauted as high priority : Bing Bar 7.0 (formerly branded MSN Toolbar) is an Internet Explorer toolbar. This Bing Bar upgrade delivers new Bing search capabilities, improves performance, and enhances stability. I had to laugh when I read it enhances stability and improves performance. What a load of hogwash.

Just keep this in mind JC. Integrity has never been easy to justify to those who have none, but to those who have Integrity it is valued above all else and praised to everyone they meet. I for one mention your work to everyone who will sit still to hear it. I am sure anyone who has used your product, free or otherwise, feels exactly the same way. If they had any doubts, all they need to do is browse the forum to see you stand behind your products. Those using the tactics you mention will be seen for what they are in the end, and they will be remembered for a very long time for the gold diggers they really are. Karma always wins in the end. 

P.S. BTW I hid this update never to be shown again, and immediately it gave me a big exclamation mark telling me my security could be compromised if I don't install this unecessary toolbar. If this isn't a bald faced lie directly from Microsoft, I don't know what is. No way will I EVER knowingly install this garbage.

[Jeremy Collake]

You are right on integrity.

Insane they pushed it out in an update. They are getting desperate. They must be spending hundreds of millions of dollars pushing that darn toolbar. I guess Bing must be a failure, just like their previous 4 attempts to get into the search market. I've tried BING. It has a pretty good user interface that made Google improve their UI. However, the search results just are nowhere near as good as Google's ... at least in my numerous experiments.

This will make more people hate Windows, on top of distrust all shareware and freeware apps.

We need a no-bundle download site... oh, and one that doesn't have any 'download now' ads that trick you into downloading the wrong stuff. FileHippo looks good, but he has some bundled stuff like Unlocker. I asked him to add Process Lasso, but I don't think he 'gets it'. I understand people being skeptical, but if he'd give it a chance, read about it, and try the graphical demo, I'm pretty sure he'd change his mind.

[Jeremy Collake]

I must apologize for 'losing it' when I found, despite my moral objections to toolbar bundles, my primary mirror had done this for me -- and was profiting off my free users. It is even more insulting when you consider I pay CNET $9 a month per listing, to keep my software mirrored and ... well, actually I'm not sure what I pay that for.

As I mentioned, and yes I am aware I'm being repetitive, one of the sad things is how this will further hurt proliferation of Process Lasso. By directing new users to CNET, I was increasing the download count there. I wouldn't care much about CNET, but in their close cooperation with Microsoft, their downloads are used as the basis for the little known Windows MarketPlace... a software store for Windows that never really caught on, except maybe in the mobile space, for the few people who have Windows Mobile phones. Still, I prefer to be listed there, and have the 'standing' that comes with having a Download.com listing.

Anyway, it seems the general consensus of users is that they don't mind toolbar bundles. It has become a norm. I'm still not doing it, but the fact is that it is the norm. I believe this should change, for the good of the entire industry.

An ethical software framework should be developed, outlining what should and should not be done. It should ban deceptive practices. It should mandate clean uninstalls. There is nobody to enforce this though, and this is hardly the only area of our society that is rife with ethical violations.

In the meantime, despite my whining, my primary objective must be improving my software. Towards that end, I do have a new and more polished RegMerge on the way, along with another update to Process Lasso (may be a week on it though). I have definite plans, and know what I need to do.

Wish me luck . As always, I thank all those who use my software, and especially those who like it enough to buy a license. Even if you haven't bought a license, you are still a friend to me, and do be sure to put those annoying trolls in their place when you see them on reviews ;p. I've gotten to where I just can't read reviews anymore, I take them too personally. The last time I did read them though there were the typical trollish comments you'd expect on the internet. I am confident no matter what anyone does, no matter how perfect, there will always be critics... so, I don't let it bother me much.

[Jeremy Collake]

See http://www.ghacks.net/2011/08/17/the-cnet-download-com-installer/ for more information on this. We are looking for an alternate third-party mirror. Softpedia, Betanews, MajorGeeks, there are still a few good download sites out there.

[edkiefer]

Yes, It seems  just about all free apps are coming with toolbars or antiV scans etc . Do a update of Adobe flash extensions and there "added items" in there .

I didn't know they make 9$ a month , never really thought about it but figured adds and links is how they make money .
I used to use CNet -Download.com yrs ago but have not used them in while .
I found PL on Beta news site .

[Jeremy Collake]

Some of their listing plans cost more than $9 a month, that is just the cheapest (besides the free plan). They also charge vendors for listing positions in their categories. Vendors must bid every month. So, they are making money on all angles. I'm not that sad about this though, as their reviews have always been completely unreliable and terrible. I mean, their reviewers seem to have very little technical training, if any... and spend less than 5 minutes evaluating the software they review.

I like BetaNews too, and it may be what I use for a mirror in the future. I am speaking with Softpedia too. Still wish FileHippo would add PL, but oh well.

[edkiefer]

Agree totally on Cnet reviews , I don't even bother to read them (not much to read most times) as there not detailed enough .

[Jeremy Collake]

I have, for now, switched to Softpedia, as I have an established relationship with them. I may also see if Betanews wants to mirror my stuff, as I've always liked their site, and users there have given Process Lasso favorable reviews (except for the few trolls that are always around, nothing much can be done about them though). The only thing about Softpedia is that some confused guy left a comment a few years ago claiming Process Lasso made subversive internet connections in the background. I believe I know who it was, as I worked it out with him. It was just the update checks, and since I was using a shared server at the time there was no identifiable reverse DNS. Regardless, that comment stayed.

Another user at Softpedia likes the product, but hates the nags. Understandable I suppose. Maybe I should remove them all-together. I am considering doing that, though I swear - I run the free version myself most of the time and am not at all bothered by the nags. I mean, at first system startup you click right past it. Not so bad, is it? The random nags shown when you open the GUI have been reduced to where you'll almost never see them. As far as I'm concerned though, I think infrequent nags are ok so long as they have no timer and don't severely interrupt people. If they randomly popped up outta the blue and/or had some timer, that would be no good. That's the line in the sand I've drawn after a few years of trial and error.

Oh well, I'm sure users will build up positive reviews there *if* it deserves it. I hope I continue to deserve good reviews. I know I've got to keep working hard. I've been dis-satisified with myself lately. I want to get more done. I get too caught up with the day-to-day maintenance and support. I am working to change that though, dedicating times to development only. No emails, no support - coding non-stop

[Jeremy Collake]

Agree totally on Cnet reviews , I don't even bother to read them (not much to read most times) as there not detailed enough .

Exactly. To be clear, the CNET User Reviews are fine - they are from users after all, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. The EDITORIAL REVIEWS are supposed to have a certain level of truth, quality, and professionalism. Unfortunately they have gotten worse and worse. They could grab some random person off the street, have him play with some software for 2 minutes, and write an equally good review. I believe the issue is, as always, they don't want to pay for enough qualified reviewers. The few qualified reviewers they have must then rush through thousands of apps. Honestly, I prefer CNET Editors *NOT* review my software, because you never know the outcome. Current reviews are pretty good. One is a 4 star, the other 3.5 star - yes, for the same product, two different reviewers of different editions ;o. Also, they have a problem with favoritism there. I've seen them give glowing reviews to the worst apps you'd ever imagine.. I mean, not a little bad, really bad. Invariably, they have a financial relationship with that company.

When someone reports the CNET Download.com change on the MyWOT forums, the power-raters are going to rape them! I am not going to narc them out, I fear Karma and all. However, someone will at some point, and CNET's rating is going to drop like a rock... Well, unless they've used their money to hire rating manipulation services (it happens), or convince MyWOT corporate that they are unquestionably legit and shouldn't be subject to user ratings (not sure if that ever happens..).

[hanemach_gt]

Very good that you switched to Softpedia, this is very solid software directory with no surprises.

[Jeremy Collake]

Glad you like them . They run a clean shop, though do have ads -- but they must generate revenue somehow.

Apparently Microsoft is trying again to resurrect its own Software Store in Windows 8, having it even more embedded. They tried this with Windows 7, though it never really 'made it'. They were taking their listings from Download.com, so I'll have to make sure my stuff is listed there. Whether it succeeds, who knows. I don't like the idea of it myself. Nobody needs it.

I do have some worries about what the future holds. It may be I need to switch to Android development. I believe Process Lasso will remain useful for quite some time though. The PC isn't going anywhere. No matter how many devices we get to give us easy access on the go, nothing matches the efficiency of a PC.

Well... I've got a lot to do here, better get to it! I've got a break coming this week. Not voluntary. My wife demands I take a break once a year, anniversary time. I can't really afford it, but ... bleh ;o. I'd rather be coding. I know as soon as I leave the house I'll be itching to implement some new feature. Yet, while at the house, I often procrastinate, lol.

[Hotrod]

Take a break, be with your family. You only get one life, so use some of it for your own personal development. If you're anything like me, your toughest problems in your work will come to you in brilliant flashes of enlightenment, but ONLY once you stop trying so hard and forget about them. Your subconscious is a surprisingly powerful tool, the trick is to let it work in the background unfettered. A wonderful grade school teacher taught me this more than 30 years ago and it still holds true today.

As for the Android market, yes please do it.  But remember, every app I've used so far is lacking in features compared to it's PC counterpart, so don't abandon PL development ever. Your best bet is to have multiple bread winners all working for you at the same time. Don't put too much weight on any one thing. And most of all...RELAX...enjoy the work you do so well ...as I know you did when you started all this. Your best work will come out flowingly when you just let it be what it is.  You have made my short list of real life heroes JC...keep up the good work. 

[Jeremy Collake]

If you're anything like me, your toughest problems in your work will come to you in brilliant flashes of enlightenment, but ONLY once you stop trying so hard and forget about them. Your subconscious is a surprisingly powerful tool, the trick is to let it work in the background unfettered.

Very wise, and definitely true for me as well. Thanks for the well wishes, I'll definitely try to relax for once .

UPDATE: And don't worry, I'm never going to abandon Process Lasso. It is 'my product' . It will be useful for the foreseeable future.

[gman68w]

Tucows still delivers shareware without embedded crap, don't they?

[Jeremy Collake]

Tucows still delivers shareware without embedded crap, don't they?

NO! They wrap stuff in their own 'Download Manager'...  I never liked them anyway. They had this set of guidelines that software had to adhere to. Not ethical stuff, but functional stuff. If your installer dared not offer a 'change' ability in addition to uninstall, no listing. Worse was that Tucows charges developers a crapload to list your stuff there, else there is a waiting list.. it always was absurd and turned into a 'pay for a listing' site a long time ago.

Anyway, they are sell outs too... MUCH worse than Download.com. Just look at their home page.

They hardly even specialize in downloads anymore, its more web hosting and domain name sales. They give 5 cow ratings to some of the worst fraudware ever created. You won't find much freeware there because freeware developers can't afford to list things on that site.

[Miroku4444]

If you register & Login, you can get a direct download. No Download.com Installer, just the process lasso zip file. Most of the Programs on CNet now require you to be logged in to get a direct download. I guess their doing this to increase bandwidth??

[Jeremy Collake]

CNET Responds about Download Installer complaints, allows developers to opt-out while they consider options: http://www.ghacks.net/2011/08/17/the-cnet-download-com-installer/#comment-1361986  (see this comment posted here by a CNET Writer)

[Jeremy Collake]

Betanews has agreed to mirror our software as well, so my current plan is to use Softpedia for Europe and Betanews for North America, as that seems to be their respective regions of popularity -- correct me if I am wrong. I'll have these new links up soon.

Even though CNET will allow me to opt-out, based on what was said, I'm waiting for that to happen, or for them to change this policy completely before I ever link to them again.

[Miroku4444]

Betanews has agreed to mirror our software as well, so my current plan is to use Softpedia for Europe and Betanews for North America, as that seems to be their respective regions of popularity -- correct me if I am wrong. I'll have these new links up soon.

Even though CNET will allow me to opt-out, based on what was said, I'm waiting for that to happen, or for them to change this policy completely before I ever link to them again.

Sounds like a good plan. I don't know about Betanews though. I downloaded stuff from them before, and their servers are usually always slow. Takes forever to download anything.

[edkiefer]

That is odd, I never for most part have issue with beta News site, just DL LibreOffice  @500+kb/sec .

[Jeremy Collake]

Actually, I still do have TWO Softpedia buttons on the site even if the Download from Softpedia is removed, so that should be enough ... I should not worry about them, they are fine, they have nearly 21 million references on the web already .

[Miroku4444]

That's true, Process Lasso's installer is real small, and wouldn't take long even on betanews. I test downloaded K-lite codec pack on betanews and got 500-600 KB/sec, so their server seemed a lot faster(Got under 100KB/Sec a lot of times before). Though on most other sites i usually get 1-2 MB/sec a second download speed.

[Jeremy Collake]

That's true, Process Lasso's installer is real small, and wouldn't take long even on betanews. I test downloaded K-lite codec pack on betanews and got 500-600 KB/sec, so their server seemed a lot faster(Got under 100KB/Sec a lot of times before). Though on most other sites i usually get 1-2 MB/sec a second download speed.

Our network in the US is chaotic and has congestion points. Some people get great speeds from a server, others don't, and it definitely isn't correlated directly with geographical location. For instance, my bandwidth to bitsum.com is terrible, but whenever I test it from other places, it is fine. I've complained to Level3 about this, as it is their fault (they are the backbone provider for my hosting company), but to no avail. Charter Communications, my ISP, does great, so it isn't them, and I have no troubles elsewhere. Meanwhile, people in Europe report MUCH higher speeds from bitsum.com than I can get.. Like I said, it is Level3, as I traced it to a specific location in the route.

The issue is that advances in fiberoptic multiplexing allowed existing fiber to carry much more bandwidth, plummeting the economics of the backbone provider industry. So, they are not making much money, hence their service isn't that great, and they aren't that concerned about congestion points (or so it seems).

[Miroku4444]

That's true, Process Lasso's installer is real small, and wouldn't take long even on betanews. I test downloaded K-lite codec pack on betanews and got 500-600 KB/sec, so their server seemed a lot faster(Got under 100KB/Sec a lot of times before). Though on most other sites i usually get 1-2 MB/sec a second download speed.

Our network in the US is chaotic and has congestion points. Some people get great speeds from a server, others don't, and it definitely isn't correlated directly with geographical location. For instance, my bandwidth to bitsum.com is terrible, but whenever I test it from other places, it is fine. I've complained to Level3 about this, as it is their fault (they are the backbone provider for my hosting company), but to no avail. Charter Communications, my ISP, does great, so it isn't them, and I have no troubles elsewhere. Meanwhile, people in Europe report MUCH higher speeds from bitsum.com than I can get.. Like I said, it is Level3, as I traced it to a specific location in the route.

The issue is that advances in fiberoptic multiplexing allowed existing fiber to carry much more bandwidth, plummeting the economics of the backbone provider industry. So, they are not making much money, hence their service isn't that great, and they aren't that concerned about congestion points (or so it seems).

Very interesting, didn't know all that. I never had a real problem with your site. Was a little slower on  dl speed, but the mirrors were real fast.  The [US-E] is ultra fast for me.

[Jeremy Collake]

I never had a real problem with your site. Was a little slower on  dl speed, but the mirrors were real fast.  The [US-E] is ultra fast for me.

The US-E mirror is on shared hosting and is also ultra-fast for me. It is a shame really, that my dedicated box isn't the faster one.. but, like I said, it depends on where in the chaotic network you happen to get routed. Still, on average, the dedicated server is slower than that shared server for most everyone.

-----

The one issue holding me up is that the Betanews 'Download now' button isn't very visible. The mock up is at hxxp://bitsum.com/prolasso2.php . Once I get a better button, I'll make the switch. The scripts are set so that I can choose to use either site for particular regions, or exclusively. UPDATE: For now, I've got both showing on the product page ...

Will I go back to CNET when they (presumably) grant my request to opt out of their Download.com Installer? I don't think so, despite them being the site that would offer the most advantages. Their ideology has clearly become too opposed to that of my own. Primarily, consumers are not cows to be milked. They are instead partners in the growth of a business. Any site that would so readily 'sell their customers out' I don't want anything to do with.

Now, back to some real work. Rambling away on Forums isn't one of my more flattering attributes .

[Jeremy Collake]

CNET has granted my request to opt-out of their installer. They did respond very quickly and politely. Although I've been very critical of this change, I must also give them credit when they deserve credit.