Process Lasso issues

[iisaiiah]

PC Specs: 7950x3D, ASRock X670E Taichi Carrara, 32GB 6000Mhz CL32 DDR5 RAM, ASRock Taichi 7900XTX, Windows 11 Pro.

I used PL with no issues for a few days before a format. I formatted because I got a new 4TB SSD and moved Windows to my 2TB SSD from my 512GB SSD.

After the format, I can no longer get PL to work properly.

I assigned all my programs and processes to the second CCD so I could leave my first CCD to run my games. As I stated before, this worked fine before formatting Windows, but now within 5-10 minutes of running PL without even running any games my PC freezes up.

It isn't a sudden freeze though, it becomes very slow and unable to do certain things. For instance, I can switch between programs in my taskbar fine, but I won't be able to actually use any of the programs. Or when I click on something within the programs it will take a very long time to respond. Eventually the PC will stop responding to anything. But I haven't had any BSOD.

Even restarting my PC becomes impossible and I have to use the reset button on my motherboard.

If anyone has any idea what the cause might be, any help would be appreciated. I even bought a year license right before having this issue because I thought the program deserved my support, but now I can't even use it :/

[iisaiiah]

I wanted to add that I know PL is the issue because as long as I don't run it my PC functions perfectly fine.

At first I didn't know what my issue was and thought something went wrong with my format and installation of Windows. But I eventually figured out the issue was PL.

I have since ran my PC for several weeks without PL installed and have not had the issue once. Sunday night I installed PL again and it ran fine that night and into the next day (though for most of that time I was afk) and then the issue started again. Actually, when I went to use my PC Monday evening my monitor wouldn't wake up so I had to reset my PC using the motherboard button. 

I restarted, and my PC locked up again within 10 minutes of running PL. I restarted again, My PC locked up again within 5-10 minutes. I restarted again, uninstalled PL, and my PC has been fine since.

[Jeremy Collake]

Reset any rules you've created, which sounds like some CPU Affinity rules. Use 'Options / Reset Configuration'. Not all rules are a good idea, and excessively broad CPU Affinity rules could cause problems. After resetting the rules, reboot your PC. From there, Process Lasso isn't doing much, so take some time to establish a baseline of expected performance. If it's still not performing right, uninstall Process Lasso for an extended period to better assess whether there is a correlation between Process Lasso and the problem you're having.

Once you've got your system running stable, you can slowly add back more targeted rules. The more precise the rules (e.g. a few processes instead of all) the less likely you are to have problems.

Let us know how it goes!

[Galandil]

I wanted to chime in to provide my own experience with PL, which is the same as OP.

I've got my new 7950X3D (mobo MSI X670E-Tomahawk, 64GB Trident Z5 Neo 6000CL30, 2x Kingston Fury 2TB SSDs, still haven't installed my 7900XTX while I setup this new PC as my new daily driver), and I wanted to try PL in order to try the "prioritize frequency (CCD1) core for everything while keeping VCache (CCD0) core for cache intensive tasks (like games) or as a fallback when any application needs more threads than the 16 available on CCD1".

So I went and setup only one rule: added a CPU Set, defined by * and threads 16-31. I choose a Set and not an Affinity because, after reading your own documentation, the Sets should act as a "soft" suggestion - use threads from 16 to 31 unless there's a reason it can't, in that case any thread on CCD0 is fair game.

And I experienced the exact same behaviour lamented by OP: freezes, then crashes (with BSODs), no matter what I was doing (it even happened while I left the PC on without doing anything on it).

I tried to disable ProBalance: no change.
Then I tried to disable the AMD 3d VCache chipset driver dll with Autoruns, thinking that it could conflict with PL for some reason: no change.
Nothing I tried worked, always freezes and crashes, unless I disabled PL ofc, then everything went back to normal.

Keep in mind I stress tested the hardware with y-cruncher, Prime95, etc., tested the memory with Mem Test Pro, and the hardware is rock solid.
I even checked the WHEA-Logger after the BSODs, but found no entries there.

I've used PL Free v12.3.1.20 x64.

I'd like to know if using a CPU Set of *,16-31 (or whatever threads ID I choose) leads inexorably to this problem, and the only solution would be to assign manually Sets for each and every process (which, tbh, comes as counterintuitive to me, due to how Sets are supposed to work as explained in the documentation).

Software specs are: Win11 Pro latest version and fully updated, AMD chipset drivers v5.05.16.529, BIOS version 7E12v141 (latest one for the Tomahawk), Realtek NIC drivers v11.13.0424.2023_05052023, everything else is Windows 11 standard drivers (mobo HD Audio is disabled in BIOS).

Cheers.

[Jeremy Collake]

I'd like to know if using a CPU Set of *,16-31 (or whatever threads ID I choose) leads inexorably to this problem, and the only solution would be to assign manually Sets for each and every process (which, tbh, comes as counterintuitive to me, due to how Sets are supposed to work as explained in the documentation).

Your broad CPU Sets rule is apparently negatively interacting with a device driver on your system, hence the BSODs. I agree that it doesn't seem like it should, but the enforcement of CPU Sets is done by the OS, and we have no visibility into what is happening.

Generally, we don't recommend such broad rules for this very reason.

Therefore, your conclusion is correct: You need more targeted rules.

[Galandil]

Your broad CPU Sets rule is apparently negatively interacting with a device driver on your system, hence the BSODs. I agree that it doesn't seem like it should, but the enforcement of CPU Sets is done by the OS, and we have no visibility into what is happening.

Generally, we don't recommend such broad rules for this very reason.

Therefore, your conclusion is correct: You need more targeted rules.

Well, I was mistaken: the system *wasn't* stable, and it wasn't at all PL fault.

Apparently, due to my settings in PBO, my PC would pass with flying colors all the stress tests I could throw at it (y-cruncher, prime95, AIDA64, etc.), but nonetheless it'd sometimes randomly crash on the desktop even when idle (usually with the same pattern I described before: first an inesorable slow down of the system, and then crash/BSOD), even without PL loaded.

Now that I've fixed that issue, PL is working flawlessly, even though I decided to not use anyway a uber general rule like *.*, I just set the CPPC to Frequency and use PL to enable the set for the specific processes that I want to tie to the VCache core.

As a side note: at first PL wouldn't show up, after a boot/reboot, in the system tray, and I had to force a 5 seconds delay in the Task Schedule for both the GUI and the Session Agent.
I noticed that, when not showing up in the tray, both Process Lasso and Process Lasso Core Engine processes were shown as loaded in the Task Manager, but wouldn't work correctly (i.e.: they wouldn't apply the CPU Sets rules I enabled), and I had to end both tasks in Task Manager and relaunch PL - the system tray icon would show up and PL would work correctly.

Ofc, when I delay both entries in the Task Scheduler, everything works fine even at boot.

Is this a known "semi" issue (not really an issue since it can be easily solved by delaying the start of those processes)?

[Jeremy Collake]

Well, I was mistaken: the system *wasn't* stable, and it wasn't at all PL fault... Apparently, due to my settings in PBO...

Thanks for coming back to share the update!

As a side note: at first PL wouldn't show up, after a boot/reboot, in the system tray, and I had to force a 5 seconds delay in the Task Schedule for both the GUI and the Session Agent. ... Is this a known "semi" issue (not really an issue since it can be easily solved by delaying the start of those processes)?

That's unsettling to hear. It is not a known issue. If you get a chance, and haven't already, try removing the delay and just confirm the tray icon loss is consistent, and of course don't forget to check the overflow area, which could be impacted by load order. I mention that only to be thorough.

The Governor service (ProcessGovernor.exe) enforces rules, so I have no explanation as to how any GUI startup issue would impact it.

Do you have multiple users on the PC? Is your primary user Limited or Admin?

In any event, we'll certainly keep an eye out for that!

[Galandil]

That's unsettling to hear. It is not a known issue. If you get a chance, and haven't already, try removing the delay and just confirm the tray icon loss is consistent, and of course don't forget to check the overflow area, which could be impacted by load order. I mention that only to be thorough.

The Governor service (ProcessGovernor.exe) enforces rules, so I have no explanation as to how any GUI startup issue would impact it.

Do you have multiple users on the PC? Is your primary user Limited or Admin?

In any event, we'll certainly keep an eye out for that!

Well, now I'm dumbfounded: I set again PL to the standard "Start at login for ALL Users" GUI option and "Start core engine as a service at system boot" for the Governor via the PL Startup Options (just to be sure instead of just removing the delay for both in the Task Scheduler), and now... it just works.

I can assure you, before it didn't, now it does, and I have no clue why.

The only difference that I can mention is that, when the system tray wasn't showing, I didn't get the License warning window, whereas now I do get it (and after clicking Continue, the PL system tray icon show up correctly).
It seems something was blocking that window, thus not allowing PL to run correctly.

The only other thing I changed was disabling the AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer Service and its related entry in the Driver section of the Registry via PowerToys Autoruns, but I tried right now to re-enabled it to see if that was the culprit and no, it isn't, PL still runs correctly.

So, in the end, good that now everything works as intended, I just feel a little dumb for having reported (twice!) a problem that it's now vanished into thin air and I can't repro anymore.

To answer you last questions: my user is the only one on Win11, it's an admin user, and it's *not* tied to a MS account (I skipped the link by using the `oobe\BypassNRO.cmd` during installation).
The Win11 version is 22H2, build 22621.2070, experience pack v1000.22659.1000.0.

[Jeremy Collake]

lol, well I'm glad it's working alright now!

We'll keep chewing it, since an app startup failure like that would be a pretty big deal, even if rare.

If you see it happen again, or get any further clues, please do let us know.

Never feel bad about reporting issues, regardless of the outcome.

[Galandil]

lol, well I'm glad it's working alright now!

We'll keep chewing it, since an app startup failure like that would be a pretty big deal, even if rare.

If you see it happen again, or get any further clues, please do let us know.

Never feel bad about reporting issues, regardless of the outcome.

Ok, I think I managed to repro consistently the problem.

When turning on the PC, everything works fine. But, after a *restart*, the PL GUI process is loaded, but doesn't show up in the system tray and trying to launch it again doesn't change things, I have to kill the GUI task from Task Manager and relaunch it.

Ofc both the GUI and Governor processes are correctly loaded according to Task Manager either after a cold boot or a restart.

Any idea of what could be that's causing this issue?

P.S.: I have bought PL, so not using the app in trial anymore.

[Galandil]

And of course, just after I posted, on the next cold boot the GUI would not pop up in the System Tray, smh.

[Jeremy Collake]

Any idea of what could be that's causing this issue?

It's hard to say.

My first guess has to be that tray overflow area, just because it's the most obvious. Check it carefully if you didn't. The load order with other tray apps might change if it is sent to the overflow area or not. You can drag it down to the usual main area to keep it visible on every run.

Assuming it isn't hiding there, *maybe* explorer is crashing and restarting in an inopportune time, causing the loss of the tray icon. Normally Process Lasso can recover from explorer crashes, so the timing would be a big factor if that is the case. To date, we have no other reports, but we are now tracking the issue and will brainstorm on it.

P.S.: I have bought PL, so not using the app in trial anymore.

Thank you

[Galandil]

It's hard to say.

My first guess has to be that tray overflow area, just because it's the most obvious. Check it carefully if you didn't. The load order with other tray apps might change if it is sent to the overflow area or not. You can drag it down to the usual main area to keep it visible on every run.

Assuming it isn't hiding there, *maybe* explorer is crashing and restarting in an inopportune time, causing the loss of the tray icon. Normally Process Lasso can recover from explorer crashes, so the timing would be a big factor if that is the case. To date, we have no other reports, but we are now tracking the issue and will brainstorm on it.

Thank you

Money well spent and well deserved by you.

Yes, I don't have the PL tray icon in the overflow area, I have more than enough space horizontally to have all of them in the standard area.

If you need any help regarding this issue, and need me to test stuff, just drop me a PM here.
If explorer is crashing, I'd have an Error entry in the Administrative Events of the Event Viewer, right? If so, I may try by deleting all current events, and try a restart to see if something shows up there or not.

[Jeremy Collake]

If you need any help regarding this issue, and need me to test stuff, just drop me a PM here.

Thanks! It might be helpful to get a list of your installed applications, as it is likely that one is the key to reproducing this issue. The best way to get one is to use the classic Control Panel's 'Programs and Features' to product a list like this one (a random example screenshot from the Internet). You can email the screenshot to us at support@bitsum.com for privacy.

If explorer is crashing, I'd have an Error entry in the Administrative Events of the Event Viewer, right?

Yes, it should be there somewhere, *if* explorer is crashing.