Windows 8 Consumer Preview is out

[edkiefer]

there a new window8 Consumer preview is out for anyone to test out an use .

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/

also here for 32bit
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/Microsoft-Windows-8-32bit/1316014268/1

64bit

http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/Microsoft-Windows-8-64bit/1316014268/2

[hanemach_gt]

How about running it under VirtualBox x86? I downloaded setup ISO twice before, and I was getting FATALs before installer startup.

[DeadHead]

Earlier preview have been working just fine for me under Virtual Box, albeit a bit on the slow side. Will try this new one out asap.

[Jeremy Collake]

Thanks Ed, man you are on top of things before I am even - and I monitor stuff pretty close. I don't even have to check my feeds, I have a post waiting from you for anything important .

I'll be giving it a go here soon. Of course, I already have tested the last beta, but gotta stay in tune with the latest changes.

[edkiefer]

I just have a dozen sites I always check and any new thing coming is generally mentioned . If I think its important or helpful I make a post here.

I know you had early builds of win8 , checking things out so i posted ,,, hmm does it have auto updates on the beta's . I have not even installed it , I am kind of afraid to as I know I will not like it  . I am so set in my ways this seems so different just starting a app .

[Jeremy Collake]

Windows 8 offers no really big advantages over Windows 7 for the PC, for the first time in Windows history. I've long commented about it, so won't say much more, and we'll see how it turns out. I *suspect* most desktop users will stay with Windows 7, while Windows 8 goes to Tablets and eventually becomes mature enough to satisfy *both* the traditional PC user and mobile touch screen devices. As for touch screen LCDs, well, I wouldn't want to use my PC that way if I had touch screen LCDs ;p. I mean, nothing beats the efficiency of a mouse and keyboard, and I like my displays without fingerprints ;p.

In many ways, it reminds me of Microsoft's valiant effort to replace the mouse and keyboard with voice control, which they touted so heavily in Vista. It didn't quite work out, of course - as you know how voice recognition is for anyone without a radio quality voice in a silent atmosphere. Of course, their intentions are more to unify their platforms into a *single* kernel. Nobody has done this successfully yet. Apple still has two OSes, iOS for mobile and OS/X for desktops/laptops. Ubuntu tried merging touch with traditional keyboard and mouse usage on their latest interface and I think everyone hates it, lol.

[Jeremy Collake]

Good thing Energy Saver came along, as early tests are showing Windows 8 has much worse battery life than Windows 7 -- and Windows 8 is supposed to be designed for mobile platforms. Perhaps it is just a hiccup at this early stage. https://plus.google.com/u/0/110469164034872408057/posts/DcjHPkmyLhn

[edkiefer]

The only thing I fear with that is the big companies like HP, Dell etc will push win8 onto all models ,as its newest thing . I really hope they allow good configuration for mouse an keyboard users . I surely don't want my desktop to look like smartphone/tablet .

[edkiefer]

Maybe this will help you with virtualbox with win8

http://www.softwarecrew.com/2012/03/how-to-install-windows-8-consumer-preview-on-oracle-virtualbox/

here another

http://www.techspot.com/guides/503-windows-8-virtual-machine/

Note; I have not tried either so can not comment on how good it works , hopefully it is good info .

[hanemach_gt]

+1 for edkiefer
Should work, as VirtualBox I currently have does not "know" Windows 8. I have to update it, and then ISOs I downloaded previously should do fine.

[edkiefer]

check my second link, I looked it over quick an its better than first for detail , seems more detailed on how to do it .

[Jeremy Collake]

As I posted on G+ just now: Already, there is talk about how to restore a Windows 7 like Start Menu. But, guess what? Instead of just leaving it in there to be turned on by option, it was completely removed. So, people are left resorting to third-party solutions that were deprecated - but now suddenly have a new life: http://www.ghacks.net/2012/03/02/vistart-restores-start-menu-disables-metro-ui-in-windows-8/

I'd be curious to see what percentage of home users are enthusiastic about Windows 8. Now, Windows 8 server supposedly offers some perhaps useful improvements, though I've yet to play with it, and can't imagine them being *that* useful. However, Windows 8, as others have said, is going to seem more like a downgrade to users of a traditional PC.

[hanemach_gt]

I will not be able to install it since my BIOS seem to not support virtualization or my firmware has this option hidden. Fatal errors I was getting were of code 0x0000000A.

[Jeremy Collake]

It would be your CPU that doesn't support virtualization, unless your BIOS is inhibiting that function of your CPU. I'm surprised this is a *requirement*, and may be something they put in the CTP so that people only test it in virtual machines (guessing).

[Miroku4444]

Windows 8 offers no really big advantages over Windows 7 for the PC, for the first time in Windows history.

Exactly, Windows 8 is just not worth it, or needed. All bill gates is doing is trying to push that Metro crap down your throat. Maybe to make the windows 8 based phones & Tablets more popular. This is the only thing that makes sense when Windows 7 is doing so well.

[edkiefer]

AnandTech did a pretty endepth review of Win8 preview .

thought it be interesting to see his views . I have not even finished reading it yet .

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5630/indepth-with-the-windows-8-consumer-preview/1

[Jeremy Collake]

Thanks Ed, reading through their review, and continuing to evaluate Windows 8 CTP myself here in the 'Bitsum Labs'

Here's another article I just noticed due to its catchy title:

The Metro hater's guide to customizing Windows 8 Consumer Preview

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/the-metro-haters-guide-to-customizing-windows-8-consumer-preview/4610?tag=nl.e539

[Jeremy Collake]

In my experimentation here so far, one huge change is the amount of linking they do to your Windows Live account. They want you to log in using it, and presume a connection. I'm sure it would work without one, but only halfway. They'll have a Windows Store similar to Android or iOS, which they *tried* to do with Windows Vista, but it never took off. On the ARM platform they will be mandating it, since they can 'start fresh' there. I just don't know. It's clearly a tablet oriented OS. Using it with a mouse is ... I just dunno. Maybe some will like it, I'd like to get the opinion of an average Joe instead of myself. With Metro, everything is nice and big (to be touchable and readable on tablets). It does seem snappy, I'll give them that.

Once you get past Metro, you are in a VERY modified Windows 7 desktop, one without a Start Menu, which is soooo awkward. It's also NOT Windows 7, because it's been changed a lot in other ways. Why they wouldn't keep an OPTION to restore the Start Menu, I dunno - like you've mentioned before. It makes little sense. I guess they couldn't make it touch-able, so they decided to remove it, but dunno why it's not restorable. Without it, you kind of fumble around (or I do).

You can hit Start+F to show a search box that can search for applications, files, etc... but applications, for instance, are not sorted like the Start Menu, they all shown on ONE LEVEL (e.g. no sub-menus) and all in big blocks. It's just awkward.

Pressing the Windows key brings up Metro .. which is just like Windows Phone's failed interface.

There is an increased level of per-application permissions, which is good. For instance, it tells you 'You have a new app that can open web pages' as I install something. It doesn't block or stop it, but tells you that, briefly, in the upper right corner (a new area for notifications).

The mouse interface is improved in the CTP. You can click and slide a little and the screens will 'just go', instead of having to drag them. Specifically speaking of the login screen, which shows a clock you have to first click past before you can log in.

The mouse scroll bar can be used the slide the Metro UI screen left or right, or Metro apps.

EVERY start menu shortcut you have gets displayed in the Metro UI, making it quite awkward because it shows all sorts of stuff normally buried in the Start Menu - at least in the case of third party applications. Each gets their own square.

I just dunno .... that's about all I can say. This will be great to get Microsoft into the tablet game, but are tablets really the future, or just an ancillary mobile device? I think the latter.

PREDICTION: The majority of traditional PC users stay with Windows 7.

The good news is Process Lasso sure works great on it . There is some tweaking I'm doing already for it, but it already behaves just fine.

[edkiefer]

Windows 8 offers no really big advantages over Windows 7 for the PC, for the first time in Windows history.

Exactly, Windows 8 is just not worth it, or needed. All bill gates is doing is trying to push that Metro crap down your throat. Maybe to make the windows 8 based phones & Tablets more popular. This is the only thing that makes sense when Windows 7 is doing so well.

The thing is most of later win OS are not needed , at least in a sense that they do things better for you on a desktop . XP was very solid OS and is probably why its still used so much . "but" MS forces you to change or you can't use the latest an greatest app . DX10, DX11 etc plus companies like Adobe are only sup[porting later OS , like the just released lightroom 4 , it drops XP support (won't install) .

So yes there a window open were if your on win7 you don't need it till maybe win9 , again it depends on what your doing . If you don't play latest games or do anything with major company apps like Adobe stuff you be fine with even XP (until security updates gets dropped ) .

[edkiefer]

Yes, I don't know either how a normal user will feel with this , in one way it looks good (looks to have fast access to pictures , video, , email , and whole bunch of media type shortcuts  (many of these you can setup your desktop now) . I think the thing is for many people they really don't do anything , how can I say this , work related ? . I mean they maybe check email , social media's etc , maybe some limited office type apps but thats it I think for many .

I was a little surprised at AnandTech's review, he gave a more positive view than I expected , there are parts that look good from his review.
I like the new taskmanager, seems to be better than whats out there . One thing he mentions about no msconfig , I hope autoruns or some app if you can't do it in taskmanager to disable startup apps from list . many app install themselves without a option, or one that you can see before installing .

Your comment on icon size and fonts, can't you adjust that ? , also do they allow a folder in start menu , like a utility folder where you could them have bunch of apps so it doesn't crowd the menu's .

[DeadHead]

The thing is most of later win OS are not needed , at least in a sense that they do things better for you on a desktop.

Disagree. I work with both XP and Win7 every single day, and I find Win7 superior in every way; it's faster, feels more responsive, the way you start applications/open files by pressing the start menu and type in the first few words of the app you want to open, better windows management, better memory handling (more aggressive caching),  faster to switch between applications. In short, it's more productive to use Win7 compared to XP.

I would never dream of downgrading a new computer with XP, I'd miss the performance and features of Win 7 way too much.

[edkiefer]

The thing is most of later win OS are not needed , at least in a sense that they do things better for you on a desktop.

Disagree. I work with both XP and Win7 every single day, and I find Win7 superior in every way; it's faster, feels more responsive, the way you start applications/open files by pressing the start menu and type in the first few words of the app you want to open, better windows management, better memory handling (more aggressive caching),  faster to switch between applications. In short, it's more productive to use Win7 compared to XP.

I would never dream of downgrading a new computer with XP, I'd miss the performance and features of Win 7 way too much.

The thing is I have no trouble finding app on my system, I guess I run a "trimmed/managed" install . I hate having unnecessary things installed and I like to focus on one thing at a time mostly .
I can't see where any improvements as far as responsiveness , as I don't wait for anything to start but I am sure if I had win7 I probably would notice things, it does have improvements . Then again users of win8 will probably say same thing compared to win7 .

I think it just boils down to how you use your system and what hardware and app you run .

[Jeremy Collake]

As a software developer, doing something productive with my PC, I can't imagine using Windows 8. As Ed said, similarly, Office workers or other people doing productive things are going to have a harder time with Windows 8, at least as it stands now. It is just harder to do EVERYTHING, unless you are content browsing the web and checking the weather -- which maybe some users are. So, perhaps there will be some intrusion into the home PC segment, but the corporations definitely aren't going to adopt this for their workstations.

Microsoft rushing it out because they are so far behind in the tablet craze isn't helpful either, IMHO. It is leaving us all confused. Wondering why they suddenly think the PC is dead. I attribute it to Apple envy. They fear Apple. They fear Apple enthusiasts. But even Apple isn't abandoning it's core PC OS, and has two distinct OSes, so ..

[edkiefer]

Right , for sure MS is doing it to gain some ground in smartphone/tablet market , I am just surprised its not configurable for "workstation , productive working desktops , hell even if they had separate version .

win8 looks like it would be good for a multimedia system, something you run your TV off too (where you might view pictures, email , movies and some online stuff .

I agree when I did game development this win8 looks to be step back for me , it will be interesting to see how they change, if they change and what comes next in win9 .

[Jeremy Collake]

Well, it *might* be that if they look beyond all the ass kissing from review sites, and instead take all the user opinions they might fix things up before release. The user feedback reminds me of Vista. However, this is worse. I mean, I have yet to see any user say "Wow! I can't wait for Windows 8!". They *were* saying this about Windows 7. So, let's hope Microsoft listens. If they bring the Start Menu back, then everything changes to be usable, for me. That's the lynch-pin, as we've said a few times now.

Here is what I meant by the 'single plane' application view that bothers me so much. Notice Process Lasso's start menu shortcuts, all just 'thrown there' on the same plane. I prefer hidden advanced shortcuts, which is not possible with this layout. This is a *fresh* install with only Process Lasso installed. I can't imagine a PC with lots of apps installed. Note this is the *only* way to go and launch apps (short of using the command prompt or Run menu I guess).

The CAPTIONS of Windows have been *centered* in the Window instead of left justified. Maybe this can be adjusted somewhere, I dunno. They seem a little larger too, regardless of the font size setting.

Just continued observations .. unorganized .. repetitive, and poorly written. Please excuse that.

The below images are DOWN SIZED, so click to get the 'real perspective'.

[Jeremy Collake]

And man I *hate* logging in using my Windows Live account, with it being continually in contact with Microsoft (see LiveComm.exe). This just bothers me. I prefer local accounts.

[edkiefer]

So in your example of PL , can you click on the Process Lasso part to collapse it so not all the other shortcuts show ? .

[Jeremy Collake]

So in your example of PL , can you click on the Process Lasso part to collapse it so not all the other shortcuts show ? .

NO.. that's just it. You can NOT. If I click the 'Process Lasso' header, nothing happens. They are just there. No collapsing. Double clicking does nothing. Right clicking does nothing. Single clicking does nothing. The headers are not clickable, not collapsible.. it's all 'just laid out'. As the screen fills up, you have to scroll horizontally to find whatever. Intuitive? Not for me.

[edkiefer]

Hmm , that sucks , waste of desktop rel estate and with no arrangement options not good .

What do they expect, new optimized win8 app with instead of shortcuts like we are familiar they want them in-beaded into the app itself I guess .

The pinned app option is good but they missed out on arrangement and expanding/collapse  (+) options .

[Jeremy Collake]

Legacy apps definitely have to be rewritten so as to not have so many Start Menu shortcuts, that's for sure.. unless they do allow collapsing the 'headers' in some later build. For a tablet it makes more sense, as you have a single link to open an application, no advanced or ancillary shortcuts.

I am writing really bad today, so better quit and get back to coding. For whatever reason, when I'm in coding mode, my English goes downhill ;p.

I invite you all to try it for yourself. VMWare Player is free and you can use it to create a virtual machine and install Windows 8 on it. Or you can use Microsoft's free VirtualPC .. or Oracle's VirtualBox maybe. With VMWare Workstation (a paid product), the VMWare Tools for Windows 7 are fully compatible, so all the drivers still work and it does quite well. I'm sure Microsoft also updated VirtualPC to work with Windows 8 CTP. That's the only way you can really get a feel for it... and how unintuitive it is.

[Jeremy Collake]

Latest news is old Gnomelocker guy tried to have his dad use Windows 8. He couldn't figure out how to get to anything, or do anything. Conslusion: Not intuitive at all, especially for traditional PCs.

Latest ZDNet article writes about all the gripes every has had, and presents Windows 8 to a failure eclipsing Vista. It explains how merging two distinct OSes (touch and traditional) into one is something nobody has done before, and for good reason. Both OSes have distinct purposes. Now, it could be done, but .. should it? Well, Windows 8 seeks to answer that question I suppose.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/heres-whats-wrong-with-windows-8/19027?tag=nl.e539

[edkiefer]

This is kind of funny in sad way .

Check out this guy's vid tweaking the start menu of win8 , something that should or was so easy is crippled now .

Big step backwards .

http://betanews.com/2012/03/15/tame-the-windows-8-start-screen-video/

[Jeremy Collake]

Yea, having to go to such lengths to make the desktop usable is absurd.

Maybe Microsoft will change their mind, after all the Start Menu is still there in the source code ... I dunno. The whole presentation is otherwise 'off'. The concern, I think, is how Metro Apps would look on the Start Menu. Oh well, I'm just rolling with it. Whatever happens, Bitsum will have code for it ;p.