Windows 8 to get some desktop UI changes

parkd1 · May 19, 2012, 10:59:12 AM

Hey what do you like of this cents you have used Windows 8 and the new beta build comes out next month to play around with. Will you be getting the next Windows 8 Beta next month to help in testing the new version 6 your working on?

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-to-get-some-desktop-ui-changes

Jeremy Collake · May 19, 2012, 05:22:55 PM

Yes, I will be getting it, as an MSDN subscriber. Those generous enough to purchase our bundle-free software help to support our ability to get new OSes and be sure we're ready for them.

parkd1 · May 20, 2012, 12:45:42 AM

That's great to hear.

Victek · May 21, 2012, 11:14:14 AM

Quote from: bitsum.support on May 19, 2012, 05:22:55 PM
Yes, I will be getting it, as an MSDN subscriber. Those generous enough to purchase our bundle-free software help to support our ability to get new OSes and be sure we're ready for them.

Maybe as a side benefit you can design PL6 to actually replace the Metro UI with the Windows 7 start menu and taskbar? I'd pay extra for that

Jeremy Collake · May 21, 2012, 03:45:45 PM

LOL. There are actually already companies who have created software to do that, or are prepping it now. They've been rolling out updates to classical Start Menu replacements that were once antiquated, but now suddenly might have a huge market.

Windows 8 is a huge bet for Microsoft. I've long evaluated their plans, and the more I've analyzed, the more I realize they do have logic behind them. However, I'm not sure if this attempted unification of touch+traditional UIs is going to pay off. The unification of OSes would, if they succeed, but they've had so few wins in the mobile space to date, that I just don't know. And considering Metro is so similar to Windows Phone.. Well. Let's just say nobody liked Windows Phone, so I'm not sure who is going to be a huge fan of Metro, even on tablets. On the desktop its a clear distraction. If only they can get people to love Tiles, darned it ;p. After all, potentially, they are cool - showing you real-time status from so many different applications or web sites on a single display.

The UI enhancements they revealed in the link of the OP here to leave me with more confidence than I had on the CTP. I do find it ironic that they rolled back so many of the Windows Vista+ Aero Effects, but on the other hand like the boldness of the decisions. They are either flying apart at the seams, or about to make a major comeback. Of course, even if Windows 8 fails, they'll try again with Windows 9. Just like they did with their search engine, until they finally got it halfway decent and in a position to compete.

They are ever so eager to toss away their legacy desktop users, the workhorses of the world, in favor of this touch screen future that offers less efficient productivity and lots of fingerprints. Perhaps they think all those years they failed trying to get tablet PCs on the market were because of their legacy support and non-touch native UI. They failed so quickly, so fast, in their previous tablet PC efforts, that many of you may not remember. These pre-dated the iPad by probably 5 years. Laptop+Touch screen combos, some you could flip around to make into a tablet, or swivel out to make into a laptop. High end stuff I never got to touch, and they didn't last long.

Jeremy Collake · May 21, 2012, 08:17:12 PM

One additional positive development: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/21/enhancing-windows-8-for-multiple-monitors.aspx - Improved Multi-monitor support, something that is needed in Windows 7, and will be especially nice to keep Windows 8 viable on the desktop. For example, you can run Metro on a display, and the traditional UI on another (or the rest, depending on how many displays you have).

Victek · May 22, 2012, 11:20:32 AM

Quote from: bitsum.support on May 21, 2012, 03:45:45 PM
LOL. There are actually already companies who have created software to do that, or are prepping it now. They've been rolling out updates to classical Start Menu replacements that were once antiquated, but now suddenly might have a huge market.

Windows 8 is a huge bet for Microsoft. I've long evaluated their plans, and the more I've analyzed, the more I realize they do have logic behind them. However, I'm not sure if this attempted unification of touch+traditional UIs is going to pay off.

Yeah, LOL. I'm currently using Winstep Extreme in the Windows 8 CP - it does a very nice job of replicating the "7" start menu and taskbar. Can you mention which other companies are working on similar products? The only other one I'm aware of is Stardock and last time I tried their start menu add-on it was pretty bad.

Regarding Windows 8 on the desktop I think many non-technical users are going to stymied. The transition from XP to Vista/7 was perceived by many as difficult and those changes were really only evolutionary. I sometimes feel like I'm watching a disaster movie where they've slowed down the action, so the characters can see the disaster up ahead and have a long time to savor how screwed they are before it hits.

parkd1 · May 22, 2012, 12:17:26 PM

Check this out when you get the next build of Windows 8 beta.

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-boots-too-quickly-first-world-os-problem

Jeremy Collake · May 24, 2012, 04:43:47 AM

Quote from: parkd1 on May 22, 2012, 12:17:26 PM
Check this out when you get the next build of Windows 8 beta.

http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-boots-too-quickly-first-world-os-problem

Yea, I saw that. I took it as propaganda. Windows 8 may boot a little faster, most noticeably when put on an SSD (as they mention), and faster for HDDs too. However, I do not buy the premise of their argument. It is near nonsensical, journalist or marketing guy confused maybe. I will go into detail later.

Jeremy Collake · May 24, 2012, 04:46:05 PM

If the future is carrying out PCs around in our pocket, then docking them to a multi-monitor setup at home to turn it into a desktop, Windows 8 suddenly makes a lot of sense, eh? If there's one thing Android and iOS are not designed for, it is use as a desktop OS, not to mention all the legacy productivity software out there. So, I would just like to say -- aside from the hype, the propaganda, etc.. Windows 8 has a real chance. IF Microsoft pulls it off right.

parkd1 · May 25, 2012, 12:58:17 PM

I hope they do pull it off. Do not need to see Windows 8 like 95, ME and Vista was. They were the worst versions they did.

Jeremy Collake · May 25, 2012, 09:50:38 PM

Yea. they have made some mistakes in the last decade, a lot of them ;o. I have some pessimism simply because of their poor company image due to these failures, and due to their monopoly for so long. Probably the best thing they could is change their name, lol.

edkiefer · May 26, 2012, 09:14:27 AM

I still think bring out 2 products , one for desktop and one for phone/tablet would be best.
trying to make a OS jack of all trades just means it turns out not great at anyone of them.

At least they could make different shell modes where you can run OS with different subsystems depending on HW .
What I mean by this as posted above, say you got tablet or mini -laptop its set up with default win8 tile UI . Then you dock it to large desktop monitor and your able to use mouse friendly win7 style "classic" desktop .

I am afraid that what I see so far if you think many held onto XP , you will see many more doing this with win7 , at least on desktop .

Maybe 3rd party can bring out a mode like this, not sure but MS should listen to its clients better IMO . After all there the ones that will buy it and its tough economy now .

Jeremy Collake · May 26, 2012, 09:25:37 AM

Yea, it is ironic that desktop users have to 'work around' Metro, and I hope they'll make that process easier. I think they *don't want* us to get around Metro though. It isn't as if they forgot the easy 'turn Metro off' for desktops. They WANT people to finally start using those darn tiles, even if they have to shove it down our throats. *IF* users actually get addicted to the tiles, THEN they'll also be inclined to start buying Windows mobile devices. You have to think like an evil villian to duplicate the rationale of corporations ;p.

parkd1 · May 31, 2012, 12:04:26 PM

Quote from: bitsum.support on May 21, 2012, 03:45:45 PM
LOL. There are actually already companies who have created software to do that, or are prepping it now. They've been rolling out updates to classical Start Menu replacements that were once antiquated, but now suddenly might have a huge market.

Windows 8 is a huge bet for Microsoft. I've long evaluated their plans, and the more I've analyzed, the more I realize they do have logic behind them. However, I'm not sure if this attempted unification of touch+traditional UIs is going to pay off. The unification of OSes would, if they succeed, but they've had so few wins in the mobile space to date, that I just don't know. And considering Metro is so similar to Windows Phone.. Well. Let's just say nobody liked Windows Phone, so I'm not sure who is going to be a huge fan of Metro, even on tablets. On the desktop its a clear distraction. If only they can get people to love Tiles, darned it ;p. After all, potentially, they are cool - showing you real-time status from so many different applications or web sites on a single display.

The UI enhancements they revealed in the link of the OP here to leave me with more confidence than I had on the CTP. I do find it ironic that they rolled back so many of the Windows Vista+ Aero Effects, but on the other hand like the boldness of the decisions. They are either flying apart at the seams, or about to make a major comeback. Of course, even if Windows 8 fails, they'll try again with Windows 9. Just like they did with their search engine, until they finally got it halfway decent and in a position to compete.

They are ever so eager to toss away their legacy desktop users, the workhorses of the world, in favor of this touch screen future that offers less efficient productivity and lots of fingerprints. Perhaps they think all those years they failed trying to get tablet PCs on the market were because of their legacy support and non-touch native UI. They failed so quickly, so fast, in their previous tablet PC efforts, that many of you may not remember. These pre-dated the iPad by probably 5 years. Laptop+Touch screen combos, some you could flip around to make into a tablet, or swivel out to make into a laptop. High end stuff I never got to touch, and they didn't last long.

check this out.

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-working-to-kill-windows-8-start-button-hacks

edkiefer · May 31, 2012, 07:03:15 PM

So now there trying to stop even 3rd party apps by ripping out win7 start menu/desktop .

Pretty sad IMO , if they have to do this .

parkd1 · June 01, 2012, 11:00:32 AM

See that the next test version of Windows 8 is out. Going to have to pass on it. With my connection it would take me for ever to get it. Would like to try it out but with 1.4mps and a 5gb cap I am going to have to wait.

parkd1 · June 01, 2012, 11:24:23 AM

Hmmm went and got the Windows 8 setup file cause it was small and it will till you if you can install it. It told me that CPU is not compatible. I have a Intel Core 2 2.4GHz and when you click on view system requirements it shows on the web page Windows 8 Release Preview works great on the same hardware that powers Windows 7: Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster. Just odd the web says I can run it but the setup file says I can not. Might have to just go in and check with the people that built my and see what they have to say. I do want to get a new anyway and have that be 64 bit. May just wait till then. Maybe this will be all fixed when the final comes out.

parkd1 · June 01, 2012, 11:33:47 AM

Wow. This goes with my last post. People that installed the last beta and now install the new beta saw the same thing I get.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/error-when-installing-windows-8-release-preview/a2c11f2c-d43b-44fc-9bc0-61805a2d95ef

edkiefer · June 01, 2012, 11:47:33 AM

Yes, I saw few reports where this version didn't install on core duel CPU .

Problem with that fix in link, many systems like Dell or HP the bios does not have many setting at all on HW level .

I didn't bother to check my Dell XPS 410 but doubt there any setting for it .

Edit: check manual for kicks and I do have "Execute Disable Specifies whether Execute Disable Memory Protection Technology will be on
or off." setting but nothing on the PAE that I can see .

I have no intention of trying it so not really worried .

parkd1 · June 01, 2012, 12:33:06 PM

I did see someone say they have a i3 and they got the same message. That is newer then my CPU. Just hope MS says all that you need if you want to upgrade. Is MS wanted us to upgrade your computers again? I got mine a few months after Vista came out so I should upgrade my but for those that at like two old that would suck.

TfH · June 01, 2012, 01:07:52 PM

Only thing missing on my rig according to install tool is Secure Boot - no wonder, LOL

Going to install this when I have enough free time. Seems interesting to toy with

parkd1 · June 02, 2012, 10:55:44 AM

I did this to get it.

1. Click Start.
2. Select Control Panel.
3. Select System.
4. Click the Advanced tab.
5. In the Performance region, select Settings.
6. Click the Data Execution Prevention tab in the dialog box that opens.

7. At the bottom of dialog read an information. If your CPU does not support NX/XD bit, you'll see following:

Your computer's processor does not support hardware-based DEP. However ...

If your computer does support DEP then make sure that Turn on DEP for all programs services
except those I select is checked. That worked for me. But like you my computer does secure boot. Now to find out what secure boot does.

TfH · June 02, 2012, 11:54:03 AM

Nice, what mobo you have? I've been thinking on getting mobo what has uEFI BIOS (Secure Boot) but I don't see anything so called new that I really should get it. Well, it would be cool to do things like "Windows" way in BIOS by moving mouse and see lots of eye candy, but nothing else. IMO

My CPU supports DEP (1090T six core CPU)

BTW: I meant that I don't have uEFI BIOS when I said no wonder

EDIT: AFAIK Secure Boot has something to do with signed OS thingys or something like that, haven't checked that fully cos I don't have uEFI BIOS in my mobo.

parkd1 · June 02, 2012, 12:15:13 PM

I have Asus P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP but no uEFI BIOS (Secure Boot) support. I was looking at the Asus P8z77-v Premium. Now just need to see if it supports uEFI BIOS (Secure Boot).

Jeremy Collake · June 09, 2012, 07:08:07 AM

We are testing the latest Windows 8 build, FWIW, for anyone who didn't already assume we have been. No interoperability issues noted so far.

parkd1 · June 09, 2012, 11:12:06 AM

This is for bitsum.support.

Can you do Secure Boot? It say I do not have it. But I finely got it pasted the CPU check after I changed a setting. What is Secure Boot and do you really need it? It tells me I do not have it. One other thing I saw is that Windows 8 does not come with a play to play DVDs. So how do you like the new beta build so far?