Process Lasso & the SSD?

[bertie97]

As SSD prices are falling to 'acceptable' levels (I may even sell one of the pets & buy one!!!) I'm wondering how PL interacts with the SSD type.
Primarily, is it best to install PL to an SSD or on a regular HDD also attached? 

I assume PL has been tested on SSD installs so I would be interested to know how the testing went when compared to a regular HDD. 
I'm wondering if there was any impact other than the obvious difference in access times & I'm making assumptions on PLs active state resource self-allocation. 
So if it's not entirely a red herring I need to be put straight! 

[Jeremy Collake]

My primary development system has an SSD (Win7 x64 has an SSD+HDD[x4] combo). Further, a laptop I have running an Intel Core i5 has an SSD only - and is another Process Lasso test bed. So, as far as testing goes, it has been well tested on SSDs. The only thing you'll notice is performance improvements as I/O bottlenecks are reduced. For CPU bottlenecks, you'll still have Process Lasso's ProBalance .

[TfH]

I was about to post similar but you were faster

My OS is on SSD (also pagefile & hiberfile are on SSD), all apps are on different SSD, important files and important backups are on other SSD and all downloads are on regular HDD

[edkiefer]

Just from a logical view point I would say install in on SSD with OS as it does similar type of work as OS task scheduler .

[bertie97]

Thanks for the feed-back guys!

Sounds like I will be OK putting PL on the SSD / OS drive.  I still wonder about the MTBF cell writes but will keep HDDs to handle the donkey work.
Interesting about the IO bottleneck.  Guess I will have to fit an SSD & see for myself 

[Jeremy Collake]

Sounds like I will be OK putting PL on the SSD / OS drive.  I still wonder about the MTBF cell writes but will keep HDDs to handle the donkey work.

Do not worry about MTBF. Newer FLASH technologies (and erase-cycle minimization) result in an MTBF somewhere close to HDDs. I have put an SSD through HELL, running page files, ReadyBoost, and other operations with extensive writes ... it is going great 2+ years later (and this is older gen technology).

An SSD can be incredibly useful, especially if you are able to boot to it. The boot speed and startup speed would then be the most noticed factors, as for an HDD the disk caches keep the rest running fairly smoothly, even if the HDD itself is lagging behind a bit.

[TfH]

Sorry for going somewhat OT here, but
@bitsum
How good is ReadyBoost performance on SSD? I can't use/test it as Windows wont let me. Says my SSD is fast enough and ReadyBoost wont give me any benefit

[BenYeeHua]

Sorry for going somewhat OT here, but
@bitsum
How good is ReadyBoost performance on SSD? I can't use/test it as Windows wont let me. Says my SSD is fast enough and ReadyBoost wont give me any benefit

I think that is no or little performance increase.
Except your pendrive is SLC or/and 4k reading is same/more speed than SSD 

[Jeremy Collake]

If you are BOOTING TO the SSD (likely why Windows won't let you do this), then definitely it will NOT give you ANY advantage. All the data is already 'there', on the SSD, so no need to store it again via ReadyBoost. This is ONLY useful if you are booting off an HDD, have limited RAM or lots of cache data, and are using the SSD primarily for caching or specialized purposes (e.g. most of your stuff is not already on it). If your stuff is already on it, then it is like BeeyeeHua says, the ReadyBoost storage would have to be faster, and that is highly unlikely. I thought you meant only using Readyboost as the SSD device.

ReadyBoost is a 'smart cache', based on Windows NT6+ (Vista+) SuperFetch technology. It tries to keep the most frequently accessed items in its cache, based on user behavior - and even time of day.

It then writes them out to the fastest storage medium you have.

So it comes down to how much *free* RAM you have, and your usage patterns. If you have enough from RAM to *always* have all of SuperFetch's data set in RAM, then there will be no gain. However, if using an HDD to boot from, and an SSD on the side, there are situation where an SSD is an ideal place to store ReadyBoost cache data. Like I said, it mostly comes down to how much RAM you have FREE, and your usage patterns.

*Random* (not sequential) 4KB read speed should on any SSD should be faster than any HDD because there is no seek time. The random 4KB (or other small size) write times are more problematic because each and every write induces a Read+Erase+Write[modified contents] of an entire 64KB (or other size) FLASH 'block'. That said, fortunately there is this little thing called Write Caching . Turn off Write-Cache Flushing on the SSD (in the Properties) and you have a fast random write storage medium. Write Cache Flushing forces the Write Cache to get flushed out, to help you to protect from improper shutdowns, so only disable this if you have a UPS backing your PC, and otherwise accept the risk.

Also consider, for a cache backing device, reads are more common than writes (else it is a useless cache ;p).

In my case, I think I had a positive experience when I was using the SSD drive as a ReadyBoost device, but never quantified its effect - something that is difficult to do.

Again, if you are booting to an SSD, forget Readyboost - forget using SSD(s) or thumbdrives for Readyboost, forget it completely.

[Jeremy Collake]

Comprehensive answer now, to cover all bases - I thought he was asking about using the SSD for ReadyBoost, but if it is being booted to - absolutely no need, as BenYeeHua pointed out. The ReadyBoost storage would have to be faster than the SSD to make a difference. Initially, I thought the question was about using the SSD itself as a ReadyBoost cache, and booting from an HDD (a setup I briefly experimented with). Yes, Windows will let you do this so long as you didn't boot to the SSD (then pointless, so it tells u so).

[BenYeeHua]

BenYeeHau

lol 
One little change, another person 

By reading this

Says my SSD is fast enough and ReadyBoost wont give me any benefit

I can make sure that he is BOOTING TO the SSD.

And about the cache, I using FancyCache(beta) to defer write with 10 sec latency.
If you are using SSD , this function has making little write on the same file in 10 sec(depend on your setting), and this function also useful for HDD as it need seek time to write.

so only disable this if you have a UPS backing your PC, and otherwise accept the risk.

Yes, the laptop having battery as a UPS
But UPS cannot prevent a BSOD cache lost, so think first before turn off Write-Cache Flushing, data is priceless 

About MTBF on SSD, a normal user(based on data collect from friends that using SSD) can using it 10+/5+ years, and when your SSD is die, the SSD price will fall down so much.
And who have a HDD that can using it 5+ years? 
Most HDD are die by the increasing of the bad sectors.

[Jeremy Collake]

Oh sorry BeenYeeHua, I was coding yesterday, makes me dyslexic or otherwise unable to type a sentence half the time ;p.

[TfH]

Thanks all for replies.

I bet you have heard about the notorious  trio (137-139), well I'm like their halfwit cousin LOL

I have no idea why I always manage to type in so confusing order. It's maybe because I think too much (or that I don't think at all) and type too little on what I'm asking. Well, anyway thanks for managing to "decrypt" my question

[BenYeeHua]

Oh sorry BeenYeeHuaBenYeeHua, I was coding yesterday, makes me dyslexic or otherwise unable to type a sentence half the time ;p.

Ok....
Wrong again 
That is ok 

Thanks all for replies.

I bet you have heard about the notorious  trio (137-139), well I'm like their halfwit cousin LOL

I have no idea why I always manage to type in so confusing order. It's maybe because I think too much (or that I don't think at all) and type too little on what I'm asking. Well, anyway thanks for managing to "decrypt" my question

Nope, you bet wrong, as bet always a bet, hard to get the right one 
But if you bet after I read about it, you bet right 

If you read all my post, I always can decrypt(understanding) the meaning of the post/articles(whatever how badly the articles are so confusing), and the meaning of some strange game like IB, but hard to explain correctly.

So this skill has making me so hard to communicate with other people like my family, my friends and the other.
But luckily it does not affect my daily communication, except I want to express my thinking.(quarrel with my family? the answer is YES)

Shortly, I having a skill to understanding what people wanna to say, but lack of skill to say what I wanna to say.
Unbalanced, right? 

[Jeremy Collake]

That was a typo this time, sorry ;p. How about I just call you Ben?

[bertie97]

I also started thinking about SSD as readyboost rather than OSboot after reading that TfH post.
That led me to wonder what kind of media I would use to exceed SSD boot performance ....
My solution was a now ancient SATA II old gen SSD for the OS with a SATA III current gen (Non-sandforce) controller on readyboost 
At least till I can get a fibre optic chipset that is...

Thanks for the reassurance on the MBTF, it's nice to have real use data rather than just what is convenient for manufacturers 
I am now slightly closer to freeing some moths 

[BenYeeHua]

That was a typo this time, sorry ;p. How about I just call you Ben?

Can 
In fact, it should be BenLim, but at that time I having a bad English, so BenYeeHua has become my Nickname and I don't wanna change it.
Because I found that most forum/games no one has used that name 
So you know my Full name 

My solution was a now ancient SATA II old gen SSD for the OS with a SATA III current gen (Non-sandforce) controller on readyboost 
At least till I can get a fibre optic chipset that is...

Good idea!
So that the 4k reading speed has increased with another current gen SSD as ReadyBoost(If ReadyBoost is also smart with BOOTING TO the SSD).

But maybe using the fastest current gen SSD as boot disk, and putting other least used data on that old gen SSD is the best way.
Manual putting your most used data is better than software choosing for you.
Except the size of the newer gen SSD is smaller than 16GB and after installing os, it only left 1GB for you 

PS: 4k reading speed is most important for os.

Thanks for the reassurance on the MBTF, it's nice to have real use data rather than just what is convenient for manufacturers 
I am now slightly closer to freeing some moths 

Unity is strength 
Just rereading that.

X25-V G2
2011年1月到现在1年多
4.11TBçš,,写å...¥
4%çš,,损耗率

By using X25-V G2 with more than 1 years, 4.11TB writing, 4% of loss rate.
So you guess what time you will having a die SSD(except you are using OCZ's Vertex 4  )
100/4=25 years!!!
Time being money, right? 
Don't care about the MBTF, as the SSD are not writing for 24/7 hours.
Just remember to backup your important data if you put on SSD/HDD or any storage media , data is priceless 

[bertie97]

No matter how many times I tell people to do back-ups - they still come crying to me that they lost everything.... 

I am being dragged into the SSD $Blackhole slowly, I'm fighting it, but I may not be able to hold out much longer!   
http://techreport.com/articles.x/23149
I can hear Samsung 830 whispering at me from the abyss. 

Samsung seem to be well regarded.  Any SSD experts know different? 

[BenYeeHua]

No matter how many times I tell people to do back-ups - they still come crying to me that they lost everything.... 

That is normal, if they cannot get learned from lesson, they will never back-ups/remember 

I am being dragged into the SSD $Blackhole slowly, I'm fighting it, but I may not be able to hold out much longer!   
http://techreport.com/articles.x/23149
I can hear Samsung 830 whispering at me from the abyss. 

Samsung seem to be well regarded.  Any SSD experts know different?

For the price/performance/capacity, I(and my friends) recommend Sumsung 830 and Crucial's m4 for most people(by comparing on their place for purchase), but with maximum capacity of 128GB, as you cannot get more performance for Sumsung 830 and Crucial's m4 about 128GB.
If 128GB, I recommend Sumsung 830, Crucial's m4 and Plextor's M3 “Standard”/M3 Pro

And some of them buy 128GB of Plextor's M3 “Standard” and flash it with Plextor's M3P firmware to get M3P performance, and it works(64GB M3S cannot, as they are not having the same 64GB hardware on M3P)
So the only difference on Plextor's M3S and M3P are only the thickness(as firmware can be flashed), but flashing firmware has some danger, so Google about it before wanna to do this.

PS:I am not experts about it, just one of my friends is experts
So I can only recommend it, but not compare it. 
And if you buy it earlier, you enjoy it earlier, you buy it later, you buy it with less money.
Just find a balance point for it 

[bertie97]

Thanks BenYeeHua, reassuring to have real world info.  I probably will go for an 830.
Not that I should be advertising for Samsung here!!!

I don't mind flashing BIOS & firmware but it is always a little unsettling when you know what might happen   

There is never a good time to buy hardware, you always (eventually) end up with a very expensive toaster & it doesn't usually toast that well either   

[BenYeeHua]

I don't mind flashing BIOS & firmware but it is always a little unsettling when you know what might happen   

There is never a good time to buy hardware, you always (eventually) end up with a very expensive toaster & it doesn't usually toast that well either   

I have flash many thing like DVD-burner(for less burning fail),ADSL modem(after flash, setting become more easy, can multi-pppoe, 1 week operating without problem.)Smart Phone(Android 2.3) and more, only the ADSL modem flash fail with custom firmware, after a dead flash, life again  until the ROM cannot be read/write any more. Even a thunder is coming, this modem still life, but network card die 

I am not afraid of flashing thing, I just afraid that, after flash fail, is there a way to flashing it to making it life again. 
Flashing graphic card or bios is danger, if the firmware is having problem, the voltage high and bang!
You losing your hardware and money 

And yes, there is never a good time to buy hardware, the price will fall down, but it will also become higher, just like HDD.
If you just waiting the price a big jump, you better don't buy it, and you saving your money 

[bertie97]

Yes it's the recoverability that worries me, I have flashed & unflashed many things 

I am now interested in the new Plextor
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/plextor-launches-super-fast-ssd-170000136.html

Makes me wonder if development is finally reaching a sensible point. 

[BenYeeHua]

Yes it's the recoverability that worries me, I have flashed & unflashed many things 

I am now interested in the new Plextor
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/plextor-launches-super-fast-ssd-170000136.html

Makes me wonder if development is finally reaching a sensible point. 

M5P, 24nm=>19nm process shrink, with increased performance, decreasing cost and most important, p/e cycles decreased too.
So I will waiting Anandtech to review it before weekend, if FedEx not delaying it 
From the information I get, is M5P not improving too much from M3P.
And the firmware, I think it not stable yet, so maybe you need patient to waiting some review coming up first, and decide wanna buy it or not.

[bertie97]

Pricing, which seems to be nowhere at the moment, will be critical too! 

But on paper it is looking like a positive development.  With the kind of burn in they are talking about you would hope firmware would be stable but who knows. 

[BenYeeHua]

Pricing, which seems to be nowhere at the moment, will be critical too! 

But on paper it is looking like a positive development.  With the kind of burn in they are talking about you would hope firmware would be stable but who knows. 

And I will waiting for review first