News:

NOTICE: This forum is mostly an archive, though new posts are allowed. Registration may require manual admin activation. After registering visit https://bitsum.com/contact/ to request account activation.

Main Menu

Disabling core parking

Started by bertie97, August 10, 2012, 02:23:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

BenYeeHua

Ya, so I am thinking why the HPET will affect the mouse movements, boot time and the FPS in the games. :)
Because the Nvidia website also provide a tools to check the accuracy of the QueryPerformanceCounter and related APIs too.  ;)

And the timer will change to 1ms when playing game, video(flash also include) music etc.

So, maybe it will getting a better result because the sync for TSC+HPET has some problem?

Jeremy Collake

No, it will not really affect your mouse, boot time, or FPS ... Nvidia may provide the tool to make sure FPS measurements are made accurately, that's all. Or maybe they make use of them to synchronize something. You are not going to find any magic bullet in adjusting the system timer resolution. It should not be adjusted.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

I know it will not, because I has testing it myself too.
But I am lack of hardware to testing the heavy load games.

Just curious why they are getting a better result, maybe they are just getting the FPS measurements more accurate?
I don't know  :)
And about Timer resolution, it is changed to 1ms when you are running the software that needed automatic, except Windows XP ;D
For example, CS 1.6, when running in Windows XP, they need to force the Timer resolution to 1ms and getting a better performance.
Like playing a music with WMP, pause and minimize it.
---
The Nvidia page
http://www.nvidia.com/object/timer_function_performance.html
---
And I know it is force using HPET when overclocking FSB and the timer is faster. the software/games running faster, or something like that.
Maybe we need to wait for some software that need 1us timer to testing it?  ;D

bertie97

BYH is still Red Herring king! ;D ;)

I doubted it would impact my issue but was interesting to see how it has a kind of non-implementation by MS when someone has obviously spent some time developing the hardware.
Great Free File Manager
[html]http://multicommander.com[/html]

BenYeeHua

Thank, I love to eat fish  ;D
Wait a second, I am eating myself? :o
----
But in the guru3d, they are still having some people getting the mouse more great.
QuoteGot this enabled now folks, thanks very much, mouse feels great now.
Peace.
I wonder did it cause by the interval between the sync of the TSC+HEPT?
And did their mouse is using 125hz or 500/100hz?
If they are using 125hz and feeling more great, I think it is cause by the "more precise" of the HPET or the sync?
And did they has the mouse accelerate enable?

There are too many variable to kill. :P

Maybe the best way is asking them. :)
But it is too many to ask, I think they will looking me like, a E.T. :P
---
So, how did your Core-Parking?
Fixed or not? :)

Jeremy Collake

#155
I debated as I was knocking the timer about the mouse. Then I thought of the USB bus, then the PCI bus (or other bus), all the other things involved all the way up the chain, then the fact that the *maximum* system timer resolution is going to be 10ms .. and wondered how lowering this could possibly be helpful. While it might seem like it would allow your mouse to respond faster, I just don't see it. The *biggest* problems with mice is wireless ones and WiFi interference, no kidding. It is a huge issue that nobody has written much about (except me). I see it all the time, tried every channel I can.

I would have to study what all they are doing exactly before I make definitive statements I suppose. For all I know there is a bug in some common mouse driver.

This is all severely off topic.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Sorry for off topic, because they are testing the core parking in the topic also. :)

But I think the mouse having difference timer, as I set it as 1ms(1000hz), but it still work as 1000hz when the system timer resolution is 15.6ms.
The mouse is 125hz(8ms) for normal mouse, but it can be hack the driver to 500hz-1000hz(don't try it with a bad mouse, as I having a mouse that become weak after hacking it...)

From 125hz(8ms) to 500hz(2ms) is a big changing for the mouse, and the respond of the mouse too.
Because the mouse can send the information more faster, and changing this will getting the mouse accelerate more faster as the information is getting more.
But I don't know it will adding how many overhead for game process.
----
Yup, the WiFi interference is the biggest problem for WiFi mouse(WiFi too), but it is ok when the distance between the mouse and the receiver is just <5cm ;D
But it is strange when many people has tried to fixing it with changing the WiFi channel, receiver etc, but fail to fixing it too.
I am not with the WiFi mouse that having this problem, so I can't do research without the hardware...

But I am using the RTS (Request to Send) to fixing the problem for the WiFi network, when bridging with other AP(same channel),
It affect more when the receiver is the Smart Phone with a p2p software....
But it can't fix the buffer problem. :P (like the download speed is 2Mbps, but the WiFi speed is only 512Kbps...), it need the ACM QoS.
----
Timer resolution, it is also changed in windows 8, with more interval, and you can read some affect to gaming in the Guru3d topics.
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
But it also can be saving power for laptop, and the most important one, tablet.

Intel also start using it(with core parking also) to let the processor going into deeper C-states with more time.
So it is a big thing, just see that after the browser start using it with 4ms(6ms by default when the Timer resolution is not set as 1ms), the performance increase.

For NTP also, I think they are happy when GetSystemTimePreciseAsFileTime() is added to windows 8 too.
----
By reading their test, the core parking is affecting the gaming performance.
But they need more test with Fraps, the rendering time for every frames :)

BTW, I think it also affect the DPC delay too, as it can process more faster by jumping into another core to process ASAP.
Just need to know that core parking is affect when gaming?(single task) or gaming+browsing+music+downloading etc(multitask)

And overhead for the Core Parking? So the data need to wait more time after the kernel process which core is need to park and allocation of the threads? :)

Jeremy Collake

#157
Yes, core parking benchmarks have been surprising and show fairly clearly that is tuned too aggressive for most hard core users. This may be because the average Joe is so different from a hard core PC user (e.g. a gamer). That is why I recommend disabling it in your highest performance power profile, then switching power profiles as desired. As ParkControl and Process Lasso allow.

You could hack a mouse or keyboard drive scan frequency I suppose, though I've never heard of a need to do so before now. I don't know that the optical processor in most mice scans at more than once every 10ms or not, so whether the mouse can keep up with the changed frequency is a matter of debate. If it can, then one would think it would ship with drivers that would set the appropriate frequency. If it can't, then increasing the frequency could create artifacts (defects) in its message stream because it has not yet processed the most recent signal. Though that is all completely on a limb, as is the premise that a mouse need be hacked to perform better ;p. They do sell special gaming mice for big bucks, but whether they are really better, you tell me I suppose... ;). I wouldn't know, I go with traditional mice, and - yes - I do keep them inches from the receiver due to the WiFi interference problem. Why this is not a hot topic I have no idea, but there is some serious interference going on, as I said. It isn't obvious unless you saturate the bandwidth of an 802.11g channel, with a file copy or something. That is all it takes to make a wireless mouse less than responsive. I wonder how many people think it is their PC, when it is really their mouse that is acting jerky. You can always test by hitting the Windows key. If the Start Menu (or Metro in Windows 8 ) appears, then it is your mouse!
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

So did the Core Parking become worse in Windows 8?
It need to tested with "bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes" to prevent the Timer Resolution affect the result.
And other thing that we don't know.
Maybe the best way is asking the Microsoft, but no answers come out.
BTW, did you can create a software to monitor the working of Core Parking like watching the usage of pre-core?
----
Yup, Science is a serious business ;D
To fix the WiFi problem, you need to learn more about Science first. ;)
And then fix it by using the technology(software ways), like the b/g/n to getting more faster and prevent other device to affect whole the WiFi network speed.

This is not a hot topic because they are not buying it, at here, only 1/100 person that using it.
And maybe a wireless gaming mouse don't facing this problem. fixed by wireless gaming mouse with technology(software ways) maybe?
Who know? :)
----
I am buying the gaming mouse just for the ergonomic design, as I holding the mouse everyday with a big hand.
And I am buying a wrong mouse for a middle size hand... :P
But it is fine for me, as my holding ways is not putting all my hand on it.(just using the fingers)
----
Maybe after they force the os use HPET only and fixed by prevent the 8ms(125hz) is jumping between 6-10ms but like 7-9ms?(and the time to sync TSC+HPET?)
And it is cause by the optical processor of the mouse can't follow the jumping, so the data is delay and it need next 6-10ms to send(8ms+8ms=16ms)?
Who know? ;D
Need to test with many software(like the software that test mouse accelerate) and hardware(mouse only?), and First is to learning how a mouse working ;)
Google! Help ME!!!%>_<%
PS:Benchmarks is a serious business also ;D
PS2:New user name for you :)

Jeremy Collake

I am working on new code so don't have the time to go through everything, but you are right that software and hardware environments are complex enough to the point that minor, seemingly insignificant or unsubstantial, tweaks could conceivably make a difference for some minority of people.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

bertie97

QuoteYes, core parking benchmarks have been surprising and show fairly clearly that is tuned too aggressive for most hard core users. This may be because the average Joe is so different from a hard core PC user (e.g. a gamer). That is why I recommend disabling it in your highest performance power profile, then switching power profiles as desired. As ParkControl and Process Lasso allow.

Not for me it seems...
:'( :'( :'(

Quote
Wait a second, I am eating myself?

Not exactly, & as King I think you will be allowed to eat your subjects. :P
Great Free File Manager
[html]http://multicommander.com[/html]

Jeremy Collake

#161
Quote from: bertie97 on October 23, 2012, 08:16:11 AM
Not for me it seems...
:'( :'( :'(

The benchmark must be one that has a staggered load, something I meant to add to ThreadRacer, and will be doing so soon. A standard 'how fast will it go' benchmark will just unpark them and they all go 100%. That's not a true measure of the effects of the parking and unparking time. Of course, it is true that for some users there won't be a difference regardless, depending on their user behaviors and installed software.

Also, not all modern PCs support core parking to start with, so that is another factor to consider (and ParkControl won't tell you at present).
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Ya, we lack of the software to test Core Parking, only some game and WinRaR can prove about disable it. :)
----
Quoteeat your subjects.
And I always eat my subjects(topic). ;D
----
Was not bertie97 means that, the Core Parking in the os that install at SSD is fail to read the value by ParkControl?

Jeremy Collake

#163
Quote from: BenYeeHua on October 23, 2012, 12:40:16 PM
Was not bertie97 means that, the Core Parking in the os that install at SSD is fail to read the value by ParkControl?

What? I'm sorry, I don't understand this sentence.

What outstanding issues are there with ParkControl? Can anyone give me a summary? With so much fixed, etc.. I am not sure where we're at for *certain* so want to be certain. Yes, the Bugtracker will help when I expose it to the public again.

P.S. I don't even know what to do with half this thread as far as categorization goes ;p.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Ok
Quote from: bertie97 on October 08, 2012, 07:17:30 AM
@ BYH - look again.  Parkcontrol is recorded above.

The point of the posts -
https://bitsum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1702.msg8883.html#msg8883 (https://bitsum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1702.msg8883.html#msg8883)

I'm looking for an anomaly which would explain why the CP dialogs apparently no longer allow me to assign individual settings per power profile.  [They do not update/hold updated settings when 'apply' is hit]
I guess I could record the screen activity as a movie file to prove I'm not just making this up.

I'd imagined recording my reg activity might reveal something.  The fact it doesn't appear to suggest the problem lies elsewhere.
bertie97 is facing that, the PakrControl is not reading the setting that he set.
For example, bertie97 wanna to set "Balance" to 50% Core Parking, but after he press the Apply button.
The setting it wanna to apply is disappear, but it works.
Quote from: bertie97 on October 02, 2012, 10:27:47 AM
In my case the OS is 7x64 & PL park control works fine on my old install.
Resmon doesn't show me the info I want as far as I can see - ie the OS setting - I am assuming the reg entry above shows that the scheme is possible & active.  Resmon & perfmon only give me the readout that it has come into effect I think.
powercfg/q gives
QuotePower Setting GUID: bc5038f7-23e0-4960-96da-33abaf5935ec  (Maximum processor
state)
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000064
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000064
Again I assume this is the correct state as ...0064 is full control is it not?

At this point I am more interested in hunting down why it's not behaving as before...
Not life or death, just something I want to tear apart.  :P
And by reopen the ParkControl, reinstall PL, it is still showing the same. :)

Jeremy Collake

#165
CPU Parking sounds disabled system-wide somehow, when it wasn't before. I don't see how this is possible with ParkControl, as it doesn't disable the entire mechanism, just adjusts its parameters to effectively disable or enable it. If you've many any manual registry edits, those should be reverted, and is why I recommend against such. I don't know ... I will have to think about it more. Also, FWIW, although I break this rule myself often, the most concise summary is the most useful to me. Also check BIOS settings. What else changed here?
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

So, what else can affect the ParkControl to read the setting and showing it wrongly?
Did after apply the setting will reread the setting? :)

And what updates for windows is affect the powercfg?

That only I can think to find the cause. :)

Jeremy Collake

It reads the setting from the registry, but makes changes to the settings using powercfg. That is the cause of the disparity and why parking appears active in ParkControl. It of course refreshes the settings. I'll have to more tightly couple it with the power subsystems to handle these situations.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

By using something like powercfg/q ? :)

Jeremy Collake

No. Using powercfg at all was just a quick hack.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Hope you will find the solution  ;)

bertie97

Attach video of events in PL dialog when trying to set CP. 
This must have the .jpg removed. It is an .avi. <2.9mb
Great Free File Manager
[html]http://multicommander.com[/html]

BenYeeHua

Did you try create a new power plan profile and change it?
Maybe there are something wrong at the registry.

bertie97

I am looking for reasons why the registry would be off-limits to PL.  It has elevated rights.
The power schemes will modify via Win. 
I have just found that the reset 'do not show again' dialogs switch doesn't work either so I think it is something related to the registry.
This isn't an ini setting is it(?) so I looked at AV exclusions again.  I am still using CIS (Comodo) & the entire PL folder is in exclusions in both AV & Def+, & has FW access so I would think it wasn't that.
I was using CIS on the HDD install & didn't need the PL processes in exclusions.  Different SATA header & driver on SSD now but I wouldn't expect that to be the reason  ???



Great Free File Manager
[html]http://multicommander.com[/html]

Jeremy Collake

Even if ParkControl was running at low rights, it has read access to the applicable registry keys. It launches powercfg.exe with elevated rights regardless, which makes the actual change. The reason powercfg.exe fails to make the change has something to do with the system configuration. Like I said, I will work on showing more precisely what is going on, including any errors. In the future I won't use powercfg.exe and will have more access to the error status.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Just want to let you know, I just try it on the Chinese version of windows 7(for testing core-parking).
After I create a new power plans, apply the new setting, it does not showing the current setting.
But it is fine for the default power plans.
----
About the HT, Good News, it is not affect the gaming performance.
Maybe they has disable the HT in bios, and cause the Core Parking parking less.

BTW, did Core Parking work at least 50% core are parked?
Because I was tested with 0%, but it is still showing 50% core parked.

BenYeeHua

#176
I found that, the Asus default powerplan "Power4Gear High Performance" has core-parking disable after I install PL and check for it.
Did the PL change it, or the Asus found the core-parking and disable it?
I think is Asus disable it, as before I install PL, the "Resource Monitor" is not showing the parking state.
They found it, or Microsoft tell them, or other software change it?
And they change the AC only, not with Battery also.
Interesting. :D

The windows 8 has changed the working way of Core-Parking, it disable the Core, not disable the Fake-Core like windows 7.
But I don't know how it work when facing AMD Bulldozer, and Intel 4 real-core or 4 real, 4 fake-core. :)

Jeremy Collake

Probably ASUS did this, as they are notorious for such tweaks. I have used lots of ASUS software, using more than one ASUS motherboard (am right now even). I strongly advise staying far away from their optimization utilities, and especially their 'automated' overclocking. I mean, thinking about it for a minute and common sense will tell you any automated overclocking is inherently not safe. It is operating outside the bounds of the system. While your PC may be fine 99% of the time, it could have a catastrophic crash during a high load one day and cause data loss. All for a - usually very marginal - gain in performance.

So far two memory leaks have been identified in their software as well. One I blogged about and another a friend blogged about. Whether these are fixed, I dunno. Since these are 'resident' (always running) applications, a memory leak of even the smallest size is a big deal.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Can you provide the blog post link or the name of the software?
So I can avoid the "lack".

And yes, they just set the "Minimum processor state" to 100%, and they just using the setting form the default powerplan "High Performance"
I wonder how they can get the EnergyStar for this laptop...
(and other problem too, I better create/use a new powerplan...)

The EPU(energysave) and Automatic overclock is also having many problem, they just lower the Bclk or FSB, lower the PCI-E version and other such like this.
But I haven found the "optimization utilities" that you say.

And their BIOS too, the setting will changed to default(not Optimize setting) and cause the temp limit is too low, so I need to click the reset the default setting(reset to Optimize setting) every boot, as that is not my computer, I can't just change the default setting of the BIOS and flash it.
----
And windows 8 is start parking the whole core(core 2, 3), while only using the core 0 and the fake-core(core 1) .
Nice way to saving the power, and using the TurboBoost too  :D
----
And ya, there are some HPET broken on the motherboards(maybe?)
QuoteFixed GPU-Z not starting or crashing the machine on systems with broken HPET implementation
----
And I just found one strange thing, the Firefox(Nightly) GC&iGC is reduced(GC:From 19xms to 9xms iGC:From 6xms to 4xms) while I moved to windows 8 with i5-3210M and 2 1600 MHz 11-11-11-29 1T ram.
The GC time is affect by the Ram or the OS(windows 8 )?

Jeremy Collake

They were social media posts actually, and I limited the audience, the processes with known memory leaks are (or were last I looked):

atkexComSvc.exe  (seen using 1GB+, but grows indefinitely)
and
AI Suite II.exe  (seen using over 160MB+, but grows indefinitely)

Whether or not they have been fixed, who knows. Here's a different subject, again criticizing ASUS utilities for taking TurboBoost and ramping it up to unsafe levels ala Turbo Unlocker: http://thepileof.blogspot.com/2011/11/asus-turbo-unlocker-may-not-be-100.html
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

edkiefer

#180
That is interesting info , I don't use there utilities  ,at least not there big suite of apps they do now with AI . I have used asus probe in past with decent results (there many free app out now do same thing ) .

On the turbo boost on AMD, Never had AMD processors but FWIW the latest P8Z77 Bios for intel is set so if you set your ram timings to XMP setting (all other clocks are set default) the bios will automatic by default run highest turbo boost available in ever core even thought you didn't mess with turbo multipliers . You have to disable now "asus multi threading optimization" setting .
I don't use any of the power options in the bios but I don't have any issue with bios not saving right settings, at least so far (3 months) .

Here the thing that changed with turbo boost . Intel only controls the base clock , all the turbo boost amount is on MB manufactures and how they set it . Many do same thing especially if its marketed at power user/OC'er .

And as many have said that auto auto clocker is not the best. how can it be its doing the testing, optimizing in few mins . It tends to raise vcore way higher than is needed , especially in IB which are sensitive to vcore raising and run best with lowest voltage per OC (meaning don't try for sky IMO ).

Now its not bad as a tool, use it to get baseline then tweek voltages manually and maybe raise/lower clocks to get best stability . It does tend to be faster when used with there windows based OC app as your getting real-time results . No need for constant reboots to bios for settings .
All said an done I still tend to do all in bios, IMO that were all should be set at end of day , I don't think its good idea to have windows do it, cause if you have say, CPU OC profiles, VGA OC profiles and fan profiles that need to be loaded at login, what happens if say all the OC get loaded properly and fan ones didn't for some reason. overheated CPU/VGA/system . I try and limit that kind of app in windows .

Ah, looks like I went OT and long winded again  :)
Bitsum QA Engineer

BenYeeHua

I always OT  ;D
And ya, just Google "atkexComSvc.exe" 2. 21 Sep 2012 Memory lack... :o
Lucky I don't using the software that you mentioned, as this is a laptop. :)

And I did not trust the Motherboard "auto" function too much, except half-auto fan control.  :P
----
The fan one, I use the SpeedFan before, and because that computer's Fan is broken, so I can hear the sound without worry it will loss control. ;D
----
I just using the powercfg to delete the Power4Gear High Performance(now Power4Gear has 2 profile only, High Performance(default) and Power Save, with a not good enough cooler)and copy a balance profile with the same GUID, so the software did not found it is changed/missing and create a new one, and I still can change PowerPlan by using the software/FN key. ;)

I think Asus should start fire the useless software developer, they are now trying to destroy the whole thing.
Nope, is their boss first, for hire the useless software developer without community with the hardware department. :P
And I did not trust the EnergyStar now...
----
So, back to topics, Windows 8 is changing the core-parking for more power-save when using low-load software, with the forced enable DWM support hardware-accelerate, and a dynamic tick(Timer Resolution), with a 1006us when the software need 1000us.
Maybe getting less performance for low-load software as it is parking the whole core(2 threads on 1 core) for 2 core, 4 threads.
But getting more deeper sleep-state for the core, and maybe some use of the TurboBoost for first core.

That all I get now, but the network has difference profile(maybe difference profile for difference OS type)in windows 8, I will get more information tomorrow.

Hope you all has a nice day ;)

BenYeeHua

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4893866
The answer is cache-misses,frequency and sleeping state?

It also has some explanation about why the OS is moving the threads, and ya, there are some game is setting the main thread on core 0 only.
The main thread on core 0 also causing other software that using 20% cpu usage is eatting the performance of the game. :P
And I wonder locking the thread on each core is right or not, as they need data from other thread too. :)
----
I also testing one game by locking it on core 0, and force-parking the second core(core 2,3), to see that the TurboBoost can help increase the performance of single thread or not.
Bad, the performance is reducing, the real answer is just disable the core-parking, decrease the waiting time for all threads, not enable the core-parking to let the TurboBoost increase the frequency a little only, and delay the threads to process. :)

BenYeeHua

Wow!  :o
15-30Fps increase after disable core-parking for a cpu bound(not enough optimization) Planet Side 2.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/13tpv6/unpark_your_cpu_for_more_performance/

Jeremy Collake

Wow! Based on yours and other user reports, it seems that core parking has a huge impact on gaming. My own tests have always told me that, by default, core parking is way too aggressive. It isn't supposed to significantly slow your PC like it does. Apparently someone didn't benchmark the default settings for core parking :o.

ParkControl got a lot of publicity recently in the gaming circles, though that has died down a bit.

I also agree with you on ASUS's OEM software, it is awful. Their power management profiles are terrible too! I always start with a clean slate for ASUS devices, and all others for that matter. Default Windows install is the best way to go by far.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

edkiefer

when you say asus power management profiles are you talking windows based as a new specific power profile setup up in control panel>power options ?

I ask cause they also have power saving profiles in bios on newer MB, these try to lower CPU/MB package wattage usage , I never tried them but from what I understand it lowers the clock rate and some voltages to get wattage way down (they have 35 and 45w profiles for IB CPU in the P8Z77 MB series
Bitsum QA Engineer

BenYeeHua

Quotewhen you say asus power management profiles are you talking windows based as a new specific power profile setup up in control panel>power options ?
Yup, not that EPU.
Laptop has a FN shortcut key to change the Asus custom power profile quickly, but now they changing it into show program instead of changing to next custom power profile.
And the software always changing the minimum processor state to 100%, after you pull out the AC supply and use battery.
I only left 2-3 Asus laptop must use software(like FN key, Aicharger+, touchpad etc), as the other software must having other bug that I don't know.

edkiefer

Quote from: BenYeeHua on December 11, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
Yup, not that EPU.
Laptop has a FN shortcut key to change the Asus custom power profile quickly, but now they changing it into show program instead of changing to next custom power profile.
And the software always changing the minimum processor state to 100%, after you pull out the AC supply and use battery.
I only left 2-3 Asus laptop must use software(like FN key, Aicharger+, touchpad etc), as the other software must having other bug that I don't know.
Ok, I was not aware they had these option . I have heard there AI suite II (mainly TurboV EVO) is more stable than past versions . I don't know if this only with latest MB but that is what i read a lot . (talking about crashing and working right, not memory leaks or anything else) .
Bitsum QA Engineer

Jeremy Collake

#188
Quote from: edkiefer on December 11, 2012, 07:34:57 AM
when you say asus power management profiles are you talking windows based as a new specific power profile setup up in control panel>power options ?

I ask cause they also have power saving profiles in bios on newer MB, these try to lower CPU/MB package wattage usage , I never tried them but from what I understand it lowers the clock rate and some voltages to get wattage way down (they have 35 and 45w profiles for IB CPU in the P8Z77 MB series

Yes, any power profile not named (for English PCs) Power Saver, Balanced, and High Performance are created by the OEM, user, or third-party software. They are almost always entirely useless. All the options are available for every power profile, so if you desire different behavior, the default power profiles should be tweaked - as opposed to creating 10 different power profiles to confuse everyone ;p.

BIOS power profiles are a different beast, and mostly marketing hogwash ;p. Just a bunch of pre-configured settings. I'd stay away from them, though compared to things like ASUS'S instant overclocking via button or toggle switch on the motherboard, they are probably remotely safe.

When it comes to lowering energy use, modern CPUs do pretty well at this. As their clock rate is decreased, so is the voltage. The minimum clock rate, by %, can of course be set in the power profile options, and defaults to very aggressive power saving.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

edkiefer

yes, thats what I did just modify the stock profile and export that as a profile .

I don't use any of the EPU or TUP stuff . I do make sure CPU goes to idle fine and voltage drops as it should . According to many monitors apps it only uses less than 10W at idle, low speed so can't get much better IMO there .
Bitsum QA Engineer

BenYeeHua

Quoteyes, thats what I did just modify the stock profile and export that as a profile .
I just use the stock profile, as they has keep the default setting, and can be reset.
And export the powersave profile as "download", with 5% maximum processor state and force enabled core-parking.
So it only using 1 core, 2 threads(windows 8 only, windows vista/7 is 2 core, 2 threads), and it is only <8 watt for the CPU when download, or wanna battery life last longer. ;)

QuoteI don't use any of the EPU or TUP stuff . I do make sure CPU goes to idle fine and voltage drops as it should . According to many monitors apps it only uses less than 10W at idle, low speed so can't get much better IMO there .
Yup, it is better that, when the apps wanna process something in a short time, the processor can using their TurboBoost technology, temporary overclock the processor to reduce the time need to process/wake time, so their processor can fell into sleep state longer.

And that why core-parking is created, to increase the sleep state while let the processor temporary overclock their core, to finish the jobs with 1 core.
But it is too conserve for some apps that are not optimize, or need to waiting the other process/network/HDD to read the data.

PlanetSide 2 is a good example ;D

Jeremy Collake

I suppose I should mention, as I have before, that frequency scaling has its own performance penalty :o. You always pay for any energy savings. That's why in my High Performance power profile I disallow frequency down-scaling (downwards). Then I use Process Lasso's Energy Saver to keep me in High Performance when I'm using the PC, or running select apps. When I walk away, Balanced kicks in and allows for energy savings.

Frequency scaling causes a performance impact simply because there is a non-zero scale-up time when confronted with high loads. Since most CPU activity occurs in brief spurts, the spurt is often over before the core(s) have time to scale up.

TurboBoost/TurboCore technologies I do use, though they make me a bit uncomfortable. It seems unnatural. I suppose I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of a CPU that can only run at its maximum specified frequency for a few of its cores at any time.

Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Ya, and it can increase the sleep time of processors too.
----
TurboBoost/TurboCore technologies
Ya, as different volt for different processor is know by everyone who playing with overclock.
So it means different volt for different core too :)

Jeremy Collake

I actually just disabled TurboCore on my primary system. My CPU (8150) has been running hot, to the point I believe it scales itself down. I tried a few things, and think this will help most. We'll see.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Every CPU that start using the TurboBoost/TurboCore is too hot for laptop.
And I should blame Asus for the fanspeed, the CPU overheat to 99°(and over that as it can't showing over 99°) and the fanspeed just going to 4700rpm slowly...
after the Temp reduce to 90°, the fanspeed decrease to 3400rpm. :o

I am thinking that, I should start using a mod BIOS for the setting of speedfan or not, as the temp when playing game can be reduce to 80-85° if the speedfan is using 4000-5000rpm.
PS:Asus always has a bad BIOS setting, and it changing back itself to default when using a better setting(optimize setting)for some laptop
PS2:While playing PlanetSide 2(PS2 ;D), I stand on a place that jumping showing as CPU/GPU is the bad FPS problem for the game, after set the frequently to 100%, it only showing as GPU.  ;)

Jeremy Collake

I always set ASUS fan speeds to 'Turbo' because by default ASUS wants to show off how quiet they can be. Problem is, the fan is there for a reason ;p. They literally let the CPU come to within a few degrees of overheating before they kick in, lol.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.

BenYeeHua

Ya, maybe they think the CPU will stop processing heavy jobs or throttling first. ;D

edkiefer

Quote from: Jeremy Collake on December 16, 2012, 06:13:57 PM
I always set ASUS fan speeds to 'Turbo' because by default ASUS wants to show off how quiet they can be. Problem is, the fan is there for a reason ;p. They literally let the CPU come to within a few degrees of overheating before they kick in, lol.
I do the same for the case fans as you don't seem to have much control as cpu fan , here you can set many temp trigger points to change the rpm slope .
Bitsum QA Engineer

BenYeeHua

QuoteEdit2:

Holy **** this may be a placebo, but my mouse movement feels ridiculously improved simply by doing this... Overall system responsiveness on my i5-3570k and even my laptop, which is a Core2 T8300 is massively increased.

Looking at my voltage for my processor, it still goes into C-States and reduces clock frequency. Looking at power consumption, it hasn't changed like at all in Argus Monitor.

Dude, wtf.
http://techreport.com/discussion/24051/geforce-versus-radeon-captured-on-high-speed-video?post=695143#695143
QuoteIt says it may increase power consumption, but C-States still work for me. Frequency still goes down, voltage still goes down when it's not under load, and looking at power consumption in Argus Monitor it hasn't increased. However, system fluditiy and responsiveness is off the charts now. I would estimate it increased by maybe 400%. The easiest thing to notice is mouse responsiveness.
http://techreport.com/discussion/24051/geforce-versus-radeon-captured-on-high-speed-video?post=695151

And ya, I see for a lot of thing that will affect the responsiveness of games.
So the gamer are trying to get more information about responsiveness.
And disable core-parking don't increase the power consumption too.
Maybe it is just like, working more first, then sleep longer. ;D

PS:So the best way to testing core-parking is mouse responsiveness. ;D

Jeremy Collake

Also note if you have a wireless mouse the best kept secret is that WiFi traffic can and will interfere with it. I wrote about it ages ago: http://thepileof.blogspot.com/2012/01/wireless-router-interference-with.html . Why nobody mentions this, who knows. I do know I've verified it to happen with wireless mice I've owned.
Software Engineer. Bitsum LLC.