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21
Process Lasso / Core 0 stuck at 100% usage all the time
« Last post by DeadHead on June 11, 2020, 03:25:03 AM »
Hi all,

I have a strange issue with one of my computers. It's a Windows 10 Pro (latest update 2004) machine with a core i7-4770 cpu, 16 gigs of ram.

The issue is that core 0 is constantly stuck running 100%. I've checked and googled about this issue for a couple of days, but thought I'd come here to see if someone got any tips on this as well. I'm not sure when this started.

It seems it is related to acpi.sys according to both Process Explorer and Latency Mon. The issue goes away if I run Windows in failsafe mode.

So, what do you people think is the most probable cause? The graphics card/drivers (nvidia), some other hardware issue or some program/windows update issue)?
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Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by edkiefer on June 09, 2020, 06:43:32 PM »
Ok, on ini file, just open it with notepad and copy/paste it into the post. You can easily open it by going to the menu "file">"manually edit config file".

Also, I would like to see logs, take a pic of that would be helpful and I could tell you if smarttrim is trimming a process or if standby is doing anything.
Just so you know, to only trim standby you don't need "trim this working set" enabled but I would leave it for the test.
I would uncheck "only purge while in performance mode" just to simplify things.

I have not tested smarttrim w/o pagefile but i doubt that would change anything.
Edit: Tested w/o pagefile and works as it should.

FWIW; I game with BF1, BF4 and BFV, when windows 1803 came out there was an issue with standby list that would cause a stutter after free memory was taken by standby list cache. This got fixed or at least improved for many users in 1909.
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Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by empleat on June 09, 2020, 04:54:43 PM »
Here you go, i included again process lasso's settings so you can see everything is set correctly. It trimmed something couple times, but it is unclear what. Also trimmed memory in that time frame was negligible and had no impact. Standby memory filled all free memory, if i didn't use page file - game would have frozen.

What concerns trimming, i wasn't sure if it is even possible to trim intelligently standby memory. When i installed this program, i wasn't sure it would work. That's why i created this post to ask about it. But you didn't say anything and asked me to post logs etc. I so assume it is supposed to trim standby memory effective so it doesn't come to memory leak, why would you else said it is the issue.

As for what jeremy said, it is probably microsoft issue, it must be. It happens to many people across different games. So it is not a program issue... Also i heard someone say that standby memory filling free ram isn't a problem, but memory compression is. Windows supposedly tries to compress memory once free memory is filled with standby memory and that causes the issue.

PS: it doesn't let me post ini, extension not allowed. https://www.sendspace.com/file/pzf08j And performance mode was on, it was trimming something.
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General / MOVED: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by Jeremy Collake on June 09, 2020, 02:22:07 PM »
25
There is a known issue in Process Lasso v9.8.0 affecting some Threadripper 1xxx/2xxx systems in 'Distributed Mode'. In this mode, only 1/2 of CPU cores will be shown in the Process Lasso CPU core graphs. The problem is entirely cosmetic, affecting only those graphs.

Users can resolve it by ensuring the 'Memory Channel' setting in their BIOS/UEFI is set to 'Interleave' or 'Channel'. If using Ryzen Master, switching to 'Local Mode' is the same.

In fact, users may find Local Mode preferable, as it properly maps NUMA nodes to the most efficient (local) memory channels.

The first beta of 9.8.1 is now available with a fix. Users can give it a try by checking 'Update / Include betas versions', then updating.
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Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by edkiefer on June 09, 2020, 10:07:09 AM »
I am not expert on Windows memory management, but if that was true, than how come:

1. When i have a game e.g. Battlefield 3, which has recommended specs - 4GB of ram. Game freezes/crashes when standby memory is filled without using a page file. This is true even for 16GB ram. It didn't happen only to me... It was infamous, i read many forum posts about this. And even with 32GB ram some games crash, if you don't use a page file! Which should be more than any game could ever need currently.
2. If i clear every bit of standby memory, game works perfectly without freezes afterwards, even standby memory is like 100MB at the moment. If standby memory was so important, than shouldn't game be freezing when there is all of the sudden no standby memory ? Yet it works completely fine without standby memory, this is true for any game!
3. Because memory leak game crashes once all free memory is filled with standby memory. Problem here is that standby memory is never released and once all free memory is occupied and game needs something written to memory and there is no space it either:
- crashes with, or without some error
- freezes
Is it only coincidence, that game freezes at the precise exact moment, when there is no more free memory left ? I don't think so. It even says system needs more memory loosely in task manager.
4. Why if i use standby memory cleaner set to clean standbymemory often and use no page file, game never crashes/freezes. Except game is freezing on a moment at the exact time standby memory is cleared. But than works perfectly with no standby memory at all.



 
 
No matter what your setting or if it above the threshold to trigger you should see trim log events.
Make sure you have smart trim log events enabled in options.

Maybe post your ini file here so we can look at it (default path = C:\Users\[user name]\AppData\Roaming\ProcessLasso\config\prolasso.ini).
As I have not been able to repro your issue at all.
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Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by Jeremy Collake on June 09, 2020, 08:51:27 AM »
I don't have answers your observations. Nobody does afaik. There is a lot of complexity in these systems, so diagnosing problems like yours, and the interaction between systems, is non-trivial. If some action ameliorates your issues, then do it.

As an application developer, I encourage people to use my software to run their PCs like they want. Towards that end, I really only care about ensuring SmartTrim is acting properly. Ed is attempting to reproduce any issue, but so far hasn't, and so your problem is unclear.
28
Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by empleat on June 08, 2020, 08:55:07 PM »
I am sorry, but there are a lot of misunderstandings here. A page file is an integral part of the virtual memory system. It isn't there solely because of legacy concerns when computers had less RAM. Many processes operate on the assumption that it is there, having infrequently accessed pages stored in it (else they would manage their memory use differently). You generally want unused stuff to be paged out so that your RAM can be used for more important purposes, like a disk cache. Towards that end, you WANT your free RAM to be filled by cached data. It is the fastest storage you have. That is why the free RAM is filled with cache, Windows is doing its best to use it to its maximum advantage.

Sure, you could theoretically get by without a page file, but then you have a hard limit on virtual memory, a limit you are apparently exceeding.

Your page file isn't normally written out in entirety every time the PC is restarted, though can be zero initialized with some settings.

You can get the MTBF data for your SSD and do the math on how long it would take to wear out. There is a reason you don't hear of this ever happening. That is why it isn't a technical concern.

The Standby List has nothing to do with any memory leak by a game (though a system memory leak could occur there, in theory). Memory leaks in games would manifest in application virtual memory load.

I can't say why your game freezes, but I would caution against making assumptions about the cause.

It is not yet clear why SmartTrim isn't operating for you.

I am not expert on Windows memory management, but if that was true, than how come:

1. When i have a game e.g. Battlefield 3, which has recommended specs - 4GB of ram. Game freezes/crashes when standby memory is filled without using a page file. This is true even for 16GB ram. It didn't happen only to me... It was infamous, i read many forum posts about this. And even with 32GB ram some games crash, if you don't use a page file! Which should be more than any game could ever need currently.
2. If i clear every bit of standby memory, game works perfectly without freezes afterwards, even standby memory is like 100MB at the moment. If standby memory was so important, than shouldn't game be freezing when there is all of the sudden no standby memory ? Yet it works completely fine without standby memory, this is true for any game!
3. Because memory leak game crashes once all free memory is filled with standby memory. Problem here is that standby memory is never released and once all free memory is occupied and game needs something written to memory and there is no space it either:
- crashes with, or without some error
- freezes
Is it only coincidence, that game freezes at the precise exact moment, when there is no more free memory left ? I don't think so. It even says system needs more memory loosely in task manager.
4. Why if i use standby memory cleaner set to clean standbymemory often and use no page file, game never crashes/freezes. Except game is freezing on a moment at the exact time standby memory is cleared. But than works perfectly with no standby memory at all.



 
 
29
Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by Jeremy Collake on June 08, 2020, 06:27:10 PM »
I am sorry, but there are a lot of misunderstandings here. A page file is an integral part of the virtual memory system. It isn't there solely because of legacy concerns when computers had less RAM. Many processes operate on the assumption that it is there, having infrequently accessed pages stored in it (else they would manage their memory use differently). You generally want unused stuff to be paged out so that your RAM can be used for more important purposes, like a disk cache. Towards that end, you WANT your free RAM to be filled by cached data. It is the fastest storage you have. That is why the free RAM is filled with cache, Windows is doing its best to use it to its maximum advantage.

Sure, you could theoretically get by without a page file, but then you have a hard limit on virtual memory, a limit you are apparently exceeding.

Your page file isn't normally written out in entirety every time the PC is restarted, though can be zero initialized with some settings.

You can get the MTBF data for your SSD and do the math on how long it would take to wear out. There is a reason you don't hear of this ever happening. That is why it isn't a technical concern.

The Standby List has nothing to do with any memory leak by a game (though a system memory leak could occur there, in theory). Memory leaks in games would manifest in application virtual memory load.

I can't say why your game freezes, but I would caution against making assumptions about the cause.

It is not yet clear why SmartTrim isn't operating for you.
30
Process Lasso / Re: Smart trim doesn't work
« Last post by empleat on June 08, 2020, 02:46:52 PM »
Quote from: edkiefer
It seems to be working here on my end, what are the smarttrim log messages saying?
Note it will only trim in 15min intervals as you have it set, should see log every 15min then.
Nah, i was playing more than 30 minutes and it was set to 1m previously and did nothing all time! In log there is nothing concerning trim. I will test that more today and maybe try performance mode, if it do anything.

Wearing the SSD is a psychological concern more than technical. I advise to let the system manage your page file size. It is important to have a page file of sufficient size, else you can can get in a situation where you have MORE paging because the system is trying to operate properly within the constraints of that tiny page file.

In any event, SmartTrim can only do so much, and isn't going to help you to have a smaller (or no) page file. There quite often won't be anything to page out, and things that are paged out are likely to come right back into RAM as soon as they are referenced. Normally the system already pages out infrequently referenced RAM, as necessary. Probably you aren't seeing any log entries because nothing needs done (everything is under the parameters set).

Alternatively, SmartTrim can be set to act or not when Performance Mode is active, so that could be the issue.

Finally, clearing the standby list flushes your file cache that normally occupies free RAM, so do that infrequently.
Thing is i had even 8GB free ram and my game frozen, because page file was too low. How is wearing ssd psychological concern more than technical ? If you set page file to 3GB+, that's 3GB each time you restart pc. And when you are using it, who knows how many times it is rewritten. Problem is i have 8GB free ram, but memory leak cause my game to freeze, because all memory is filled with standby memory slowly and standby memory is never released. I checked with ram map and game itself already allocates standby memory. That memory, windows caching, is useless. If i clear all standby memory, game works perfectly even with standby memory 0. I read that even with people with 32 GB having crashes/freezes, because memory leak... Page file is from times computers had 512 ram and windows had to cache a lot, it is completely useless. You shouldn't be forced to use page file with 16GB+ ram, but Microsoft not gonna fix anything. If they cared, they would probably fix this years ago. Most of the games work fine without page file, but some won't start and memory leak is problem, if you don't clear standby memory often they freeze...


EDIT: It doesn't at all, i tried performance mode, but all ram is filled with stand by memory. I rechecked setting and every setting rule was met, yet process lasso don't trim ram at all.
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