Monitor sleep in Game mode

[bertie97]

I am seeing my monitor go to sleep in Game mode... !
PLx64 7.0.0.0
First time I've seen this, & I must admit that whilst it doesn't cause any issues in-game it is a bit disconcerting to have the monitor blank when using VLC 

& whilst I'm on the subject of multimedia/game processes, is there any way to add a 'purge' feature to the multimedia/game exe list?
I wonder as having been adding & removing stuff on this system for several years, I noticed I have a rather large game process list now.  An exe check & remove if not found would a nice quick way of tidying my list up. 

[BenYeeHua]

Should not that should be supported by the Player or Game?

Anyways, the code are here, if PL want to support it, but not sure did it works or not.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms644950%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/11099/Turn-on-off-monitor

SC_MONITORPOWER
0xF170

Sets the state of the display. This command supports devices that have power-saving features, such as a battery-powered personal computer.

The lParam parameter can have the following values:

    -1 (the display is powering on)
    1 (the display is going to low power)
    2 (the display is being shut off)

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms646360%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

It is a bit hard for Windows 8+, which is just a workaround that move the mouse a bit, I think it may need UIAccess or something....
But it may just set it to on when the monitor is on, and it should keep on, I think.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12572441/sendmessage-sc-monitorpower-wont-turn-monitor-on-when-running-windows-8
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For the game list, that sound like a good feature, except it is not a processes that has path, it should not be a issues to just check the path, I guess.

[edkiefer]

I never had monitor go to sleep during a game .

Watching you-tub it does happen , that's about it .

One thing you could do in gaming, is set all your games to use high performance power cfg and set it so it doesn't set monitor to asleep .

[Jeremy Collake]

At present, there's nothing in "Gaming Mode" that would prevent the monitor from going to sleep.

It's odd that this is occurring though, most all games and multimedia players should prevent the PC from sleeping. This leads me to wonder if there isn't something wrong with the system config or display drivers, or maybe GPU overheating causing a reset. It just sounds odd.

For now, I recommend using Lasso's  'Keep PC Awake' setting for your games and multimedia player.

And I will add a 'Clear' button to the Game and Multimedia processes dialog, good catch! EDIT: This is now implemented, it will be in Lasso v7.0.2.

[bertie97]

Thanks for wading in guys.

My temps are OK.  The monitor is just going into a 'normal' sleep mode... but it is a new monitor & it's install coincided with my install of PL v7 so maybe I'm blaming the wrong suspect!
Previously when I've had a game running & paused/walked away the monitor has always stayed on - not any more!
I have gotten used to having things awake or sleep when they are told to do so.  & I wrongly assumed that the gaming mode was linked to the power config in PL.
The monitor has an auto standby, but as it's off maybe it is a driver thing... I guess I can now justify a few hours gaming to test my environment more fully,
I can then fall back to using PLs Keep PC Awake function once I have escaped any chores   

Thanks for adding the 'clear' button.  As it is a beta implementation, I wondered if it could be set to not close the dialog when clicking it so it's possible to see the result.  Maybe a '# dead links removed' flag instead?   & perhaps it needs a tool-tip, on first glance it looks like it will clear i.e. empty, all entries & not just dead links...?

[edkiefer]

Ahh, so you weren't playing the game , no KB or mouse inputs ?

AFAIK, that is what the monitor sleep works off , if no input from user (KB + mouse) then it assumes no one is there and puts monitor to sleep if you have it set in Windows  power config that way .

Edit: I was wrong above, I ran a test with Heven benchmark app . set monitor to 1 min asleep time, test it to make sure working .
Now I fired up Heven BM in fullscreen mode , monitor did not go asleep even though i waked away with no input to KB or mouse . I also tried it in window mode, thinking maybe FS was a factor , same thing monitor didn't og asleep .
So it seems to depend on app  as far as I can see but honestly I have never walked away from game as most times I play online and you get kicked from server if you do that .

[Jeremy Collake]

Closing the dialog on 'Clear' was not intentional, I'll be sure that's fixed. I'll refine it further with a tooltip and such in time.

Lasso definitely wouldn't *cause* your monitor to sleep, no matter what it did. However, you may want to pay attention to what the active Power Profile is. That could change the sleep behavior.

Ed is right that normally keyboard and mouse input is used to determine when the PC is idle and can be put to sleep, but as he later found, most games and multimedia apps will keep the PC and display awake programmatically (same way Lasso's Keep Awake works).

Thanks!

[bertie97]

Sorry, I should've been clearer on the game/VLC sleep situation. 
If I'm using VLC for video then I probably won't be using inputs much.  But VLC used to hold the monitor in the on state.
I 'never' play online so I'm not tied to the KB & mouse, there are times when I have to leave the KB pause the game & don't send any inputs but previously the PC didn't let the monitor sleep. 
(This was noticed using my most often loaded game - so it is a change in behavior.)

I previously had the idea that gaming mode would somehow tie to the power mode set via PL
So as I use Hi-Perf normally & I think Hi-Perf is req'd for power hungry games, I imagined that even paused the PC wouldn't switch back into power saver (which I set PL to do when I'm AFK) cos I'm running a game.

So I am still leaning towards a driver thing & the new monitor thinking it can play me up.
Not a major disaster, just a kink I'd thought I should pass on.
Having PL run my PM so effectively has made me sensitive to these things!!   

Thanks for looking at the game procs dialog.   

[BenYeeHua]

Having PL run my PM so effectively has made me sensitive to these things!!   

Which things!?

Just kidding, but ya, when the game has it's logging enabled, I also sensitive a bit as it log a lot errors.

[Jeremy Collake]

I previously had the idea that gaming mode would somehow tie to the power mode set via PL

This has been the behavior at times past. It got to be confusing since Application Power Profiles duplicate that functionality. It will be the behavior again in the future, but that's all I want to say about it for now.

[bertie97]

@Jeremy Collake
Ahhh so I wasn't going mad for thinking the Game mode was hooked into PM   
I can see the various power profile settings might conflict. 
It will no doubt be fun creating a fool-proof way of having game mode/power profile/application profiles interact without driving Win PM any more crazy than it already is.

Looking back at how PL has started bringing sanity to WinPm, PL has brought it a long way.  I've gotten used to things doing what I want them to now, thanks to your efforts.

@BenYeeHua - I'm glad you still have time to play games! 

[BenYeeHua]

@BenYeeHua - I'm glad you still have time to play games! 

It might change tomorrow.

[Jeremy Collake]

Thanks Bertie, I have projects in the works that further improve power management automation. I wish people paid more attention to them. I created a new snazzy name for EnergySaver (that's not it), but have not been able to adopt it.

I hate to say that the new 'Clear' button in the last build was nonfunctional in most cases. Embarrassing. I've fixed that in v7.0.3.1 beta.

[bertie97]

On the new Clear button - had a shock when clicking it today - EVERYTHING DISAPPEARED   
Just updated to 7.0.4 & thought I'd take a look...
You gave me a scare JC & it ain't even halloween yet!!!
Fortunately the dialog does ask to save/OK the changes 

Maybe the wires have become crossed or maybe you are adding more functionality than I had originally imagined?
I'd originally envisioned a path check - is the listed exe still on the listed path? - Then if not list it for removal as redundant.
What it did today was nuke ALL entries regardless - which is what I initially took 'Clear' to suggest & why I suggested a '# dead links removed' flag.
This is not to say a full clear isn't a useful addition, just not quite what I had thought of.


Surprised that few use the PL PM functionality - the basic premise of PM being to preserve hardware & reduce running costs seems to be at least as relevant now as it was when PM was first introduced.  Maybe the PL blurb needs to add some stats on the % savings possible when running vanilla Win & PL Win. 
Not certain how to optimize the graphs/stats though, as it seems to me that the PM feature is integral to how PL works to improve the PC environment.
Perhaps a comparison between :
- someone who has the PC on 24/7 on the default MS 'balanced' PM profile.
&
- someone who has the PC on PL PM control where Hi Perf is engaged as soon a s the user starts working, but that switches to Energy Saver when the user is AFK.

The caveat that a user can customize - add an energy profile for a priority process they want to have optimal resources, or for something that can be run quietly in the background - can be added as an over-rider to the results. 

I guess that it would be possible to show how quickly PL could pay for itself in energy savings using the example, i.e theoretically, if you took an average it could work. 
Or a youtube video showing how to make the most of the PM functionality perhaps?

But regardless, there is a strong case to be made for simply making the PC run more efficiently on just about every core level with PL. 
Maybe it is just that people are so used to seeing phony 'optimization' apps that they no longer trust anything to actually work, tough for your marketing to say the least!
Having been tortured by Win for more than 20 years, I wouldn't run a PC without PL 

[BenYeeHua]

Ya, PM is much more interesting on Mobile, which like disable 3 core and leave 1 core running when you are just reading comic/novel.
Too bad my "Smart"phone always enable at least 2 core for reading, unless I root and control it which is void the warranty....

Anyways, if you are using IE while using battery, the battery life of Balance and Power Save is depend on how you are using IE.

For example, if you only read comic/novel/news that don't has JS running constant on the back, then Balance is much better for IE to process the data in burst, then put the CPU into deep sleep.
If you like to opening many page at a time, and always browsing/watching video, Power Save is much more better for always using the CPU.

For idle, the Power Save is useless as not much software is really running, so the CPU is always deep sleep, until Windows start running scheduler for automatic maintenance, so it depend on did you wanna Windows to maintain faster or not.
For people that like to running Browser, games then AFK, the Power Save indeed helpful.

[bertie97]

BYH - you are spending too much time with computers! 
You may have hit on an idea - PM for mobile computing could be a marketing point for PL.

hmmmmm no comment on the 'clear' function of PL game process dialog   

[BenYeeHua]

Nah, not too much, at least I don't working with a computer.
----
Yup, normally he will only showing up a few days, so he can focus on the dev of Bitsum's products, and less time used on checking the unread threads and email.

[Jeremy Collake]

Oh, you weren't looking for the entire Gamiing Mode list to be cleared? I thought that was the request. That's what the 'Clear' buttons on all other dialogs do. At least the changes were confirmed, so you could abort them .

Honestly, it's a more appropriate addition. Having Lasso check for valid paths in the list might be a good idea, though the wildcard matching can make that problematic.

Power Management is a key and under-appreciated capability of Lasso. You're right, we need some studies to show how it can either save power and/or improve performance without increasing power consumption.

[bertie97]

Thanks BYH.
I'm glad to hear you are computer-free sometimes. Your culture has many useful traditions that do not need computers. 

@JC
Thanks for the reply. 
I don't dispute the usefulness of a (complete) clear function, took me by surprise when everything disappeared tho! 

I had used 'purge' as I have seen that buttonized for clearing dead entries elsewhere.  Wildcards could be an issue, I actually haven't been using wildcards in this dialog but I take your point.
Over and above any of my thoughts one has to consider the bloatware side of things too, adding bytes that don't absolutely need to be there is something that PL has done pretty well to avoid.  (When I think of how 'nero' grew from a useful tool @ <100mb to the current multi-gig monster it is today, all I can do is scratch my head & turn to freeware...)

A lot of consumers seem to like Youtube, even tho it is waaay slower than reading for detail.... I have not found any official PL vids, & those available aren't what I call great.  You must have tons of data that you could use to give in-depth deployment/results information, without putting out any trade-secrets, for infomercials.
I'd be interested in seeing that kind of thing, despite being a long-term user, as I think I might see PL in a different light & thus optimize my understanding.

[BenYeeHua]

I'm glad to hear you are computer-free sometimes. Your culture has many useful traditions that do not need computers. 

Hey, you forgot about Smartphone!
Just kidding, as I am still learning for my future jobs.

A lot of consumers seem to like Youtube, even tho it is waaay slower than reading for detail.... I have not found any official PL vids, & those available aren't what I call great.  You must have tons of data that you could use to give in-depth deployment/results information, without putting out any trade-secrets, for infomercials.
I'd be interested in seeing that kind of thing, despite being a long-term user, as I think I might see PL in a different light & thus optimize my understanding.

Yup, it is depend on how's the people believe on how's this software/program works.

Did they want to see it on video with demo/example, or on the demo(CPUEater), or on a article.

[Jeremy Collake]

I have thought of doing a video. I recognize the need. While I prefer written communication, few people read my wall of texts, and many people prefer verbal communication.

It's what a my marketing partner would do, if I had one.

Maybe an AMA Reddit feed one day on PC Optimization space as a whole... hmm... though let me tell ya, I could really get going on some rants about the crapware, snake-oil, and abusive practices I have seen for years in this industry.

[BenYeeHua]

Yup, there will be non-stop topic about these thing, as long as they need money with the most easy way.

Anyways, it look like we are going off-topic again.

[bertie97]

Anyways, it look like we are going off-topic again.

Surprise!!!   

@ JC Given the amount of scams there are in every field it is difficult not to get a rant going, but you would probably need to steer clear of them given the problems of (spurious) litigation.  Reddit & RSS could work for you like everything it will be the time req'd to create a regular feed.
...& even further OT
Is there a prize for the number of restraints?  If I hit say 100k or 1m will there be an Easter Egg in PL?   

[BenYeeHua]

Hey! Let us adding that into the Gaming version of PL, then it will become one of the Bitsum/Process Lasso's Achievements.

[Jeremy Collake]

Bertie97: I only speak the truth. You can't successfully sue people over the truth. Well you can, but you'd lose, and then get counter-sued. It'd just end up giving me publicity and highlighting the plight of legitimate software publishers in this scam-ridden industry.

No prizes for most restraints, *yet*. Once I start submitting all this data to Bitsum servers and get the crowd-sourcing done, maybe we can do some cool things though.

I am going to write a FAQ entry about Gaming Mode, so that everyone clearly understands. It will also instruct users how to best optimize their PC using Lasso and ParkControl, until we release the gaming mode app.

[bertie97]

Bertie97: I only speak the truth. You can't successfully sue people over the truth. Well you can, but you'd lose, and then get counter-sued. It'd just end up giving me publicity and highlighting the plight of legitimate software publishers in this scam-ridden industry.

I was thinking of how litigation can be manipulated to cripple a competitor, remember that little Apple vs MS game Bill ran, allowing him to buy a controlling interest in his rival for pennies?  Costs & stress can contribute more to actual results than simple justice & truth unfortunately. 
Not that you don't necessarily know that... just thinking of ramifications.  I have had 2 legal battles come to an end this year & one was 7 years & $0000s in the running.  Won both but it wasn't a simple truth is right kinda thing at all.   Very dirty game, esp. against wealthy opponents with lawyers from the very top of the tree

No prizes for most restraints, *yet*. Once I start submitting all this data to Bitsum servers and get the crowd-sourcing done, maybe we can do some cool things though.

I am going to write a FAQ entry about Gaming Mode, so that everyone clearly understands. It will also instruct users how to best optimize their PC using Lasso and ParkControl, until we release the gaming mode app.

I am looking forward to seeing how the new HP mode for games (etc) works out, seem to have run out of time to try it right now tho.